Questions about Ground Planting

[ECMist]

I’ve heard about how ground planting can greatly help in growing trunk and just growing in general, but never really got any specifics on doing it. I tried searching it up and I didn’t find anything too in-depth. I was told by an experienced bonsai artist in my local club just recently that I should plant some of my older trees into the ground to help them gain more vigor until the spring, which I would then pot them up again. The three trees are a Swamp Cypress, San Jose Juniper, and an Azalea that I do not know what exact species it is. All are about 10-ish years old, and I was told that I could just put them in now. The azalea would be put into the soil for more than just until spring, as I plan on chopping it too as I was told it would backbud well after it has been planted and lightly brushed along the trunk to hopefully stimulate more suckering. Would that be okay, considering the time of year? And would I have to put more acidifier into the soil for the azalea? I’m planning on trying to just slip pot them into a hole deep enough and to put a brick tile at the bottom to prevent the roots from going too far down. Am I overthinking this, or is there specific procedures to be done when ground planting? (I’ll post the pictures of the trees if you need later today, I’m away right now)

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Hmm… That’sa number of questions.

1. Ground growing. - plan on at least 3 or more years to get best effect.

Prep ground

Ensure hole drains properly. Otherwise will have to plant as a mound on top of the ground. This is actually a good thing as the nebari has no where to go but sideways.

Prep soil- we use a premium garden soil. Basically a mix 30 native soil 25 peat or similar 25 small bark 10 composted manure.

Plant less deep then soil line, water in… usually will sink. Add more media.

Often folks dig up every 1-2 years to work the roots, turn tree around, replant

Azalea, maybe cypress. Bark in early winter and remove in spring. Repeat in early summer remove early fall.

Fertilization - Fertilize well with slow release Osmocote Plus is my fav for ground growing.

Pruning - if that is part of the repertoire for the tree goals. Wait a year, then prune normally

Azaleas advice - As far as your azaleas goes, not sure about giving any advice without good images of the tree m, nebari, pot used and type media.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[BrightsideB]

I don’t think you’re overthinking it. I don’t know about planting for a couple seasons than uprooting into a pot. Usually at the least it is a couple years. The second year in the ground the tree will be more established and grow more than the first. If you don’t dig up and asses the roots every two to three years you can end up with a root system that isn’t as appealing for bonsai.

 

[ECMist]

The reason I was told to put the juniper is the ground specifically was because it looked unhappy and he said my soil was terrible with too big a pot, and keeping it in the ground would help the roots recover and be more happy, and in the spring put it in better soil and a smaller pot. The cypress I believe was because it was also a little stressed over the summer and unhappy, I may actually keep it in there for a little longer then he said too because it’s trunk could use some growth before it’s potted again… Also, what do you mean by well draining hole? What would I do (besides the soil mix) to make sure the hole drains well? Also, the azalea was taken from the ground as wild material and left to grow in a large pot with a soil mix that I found on a thread for azaleas, the details I think I posed in a thread earlier this year. It wouldn’t get too upset though if it got slip potted, would it?

 

[ECMist]

Here are the trees (sorry if it’s a little hard to see, it just rained and it’s getting dark)

 

[WIlliam_Butler_Yeets]

if you're just trying to reinvigorate the tree, you could transplant to a pond basket with very airy inorganic soil in the spring, just need to stay more vigilant with watering and fertilizing than you would in the ground, but conifers tend to react to that sort of thing very well

 

[ECMist]

What type of soil would you recommend? I was told that the juniper likely had root problems from the pot it was in so I think a pond basket would be a better option as well, though for the bald cypress I think I might keep it in the ground to grow trunk some more.

 

[WIlliam_Butler_Yeets]

What type of soil would you recommend? I was told that the juniper likely had root problems from the pot it was in so I think a pond basket would be a better option as well, though for the bald cypress I think I might keep it in the ground to grow trunk some more.

might wanna read up on juniper repotting, some varying opinions on conifers and how much barerooting they like, but if it were my plant I'd stick it in a basket with a mix of pumice and lava and diatomite (which is the premixed bonsai soil I can buy from a nursery near me)

i'm also still pretty new to bonsai, so if someone else recommends other things, I'd treat their opinions with more weight than mine

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Out of curiosity, how much sunlight are your trees, especially the cypress and juniper, getting? They all look leggy to me, indicative of lack of sun or lack of fertilization. I dont think moving these to the ground is the answer unless you simultaneously want to increase girth substantially.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Concur. Juniper foliage looks fine, just not robust. Would winter it over in the same pot. but to help drainage would drill the nursery pot with a lot of 1/4” holes in the bottom 3” all around. Bark in for the winter.

The repot in early spring once frost is gone 70% pumice or perlite and 30% peat or coco coir. Should be able to rinse the roots clear of field soil just before repotting in new media.

The half sun for a week and full sun from thereon.

Can’t tell with the Cypress.

The azalea seems to have a critical mass of foliage. Wouldn’t chop until March-April once the weather abates. Since the media wasn’t given can’t say for sure about repot being needed, or is ok as is. My bet is it’s ok as is.

Wait to repot until following year.

Have two minds about a chop as there is critical mass of foliage present. One is to go ahead and chop and cross fingers. The other is to cut back existing foliage back hard, but to leave 2-3 leaves per stem and look for back budding.

Since your intent on chopping go right ahead and please show results. Would leave about a foot of trunk and seal chop. Put in morning sun, afternoon open shade. Do not start any fertilizer until there are at least 3-5 leaves on stems and hardened off. Then max 1/2 strength miracid every 2-3 weeks. .

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Gabler]

I've never heard of anyone doing that. I would put the pots on the ground for the winter and repot the trees in spring. Just be careful until then not to overwater. Overwatering is the biggest risk posed by poor soil. Soak the soil when you water the tree, but let the surface get dry before you water again.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Doing what Sir?

 

[Shibui]

I can't see how putting trees in the ground just for winter will do anything for you. It is certainly not long enough to get any increase in trunk size and the trees will be dormant for that time.
Slip potting into the ground may even make any soil problems worse. It is difficult for water and roots to cross the boundary between 2 different soil types. If your ground is clay and the potting soil is open, any water will gather in the planting hole and possibly drown the tree. I presume that what was referred to when @Deep Sea Diver mentioned a well draining hole. Need to avoid planting potting soil or open, fast draining mix in a hole in clay or wet soils because it will just become a pond every time you get rain.
If the soil is open but your potting soil is not good the roots are still inside bad soil and will probably not cross into the garden soil anyway.

It is far easier to manage conditions when the tree is in a pot so my advice is to keep them potted through winter and take more notice of what's going on.
You first need to work out what the problems are. Some suggestions have already been offered - not enough light, too wet, too dry, not enough fert. Until you can work out what's the real problem you can't make sensible changes.

Pond baskets drain well but that's not a panacea for all juniper problems. In some places they drain too well and trees suffer dehydration. So much relies on the combination of soil type, watering regime and local conditions. I've certainly never had any great results from pond baskets down here so would advise caution.

 

[ECMist]

Out of curiosity, how much sunlight are your trees, especially the cypress and juniper, getting? They all look leggy to me, indicative of lack of sun or lack of fertilization. I dont think moving these to the ground is the answer unless you simultaneously want to increase girth substantially.

They get full sun (but they are under a 30% shade cloth, moving them into the ground would be outside of the shade cloth and still in full sun.
I have been fertilizing, and perhaps part of the reason the juniper looks terrible is because I didn't really know what I was doing when I pruned it and left almost no foliage...
It makes sense to me to just not put trees in the ground for the winter and just be more cautious with watering, and then repot into better soil, but that would only be for the juniper. I am a little nervous about chopping back as well, but I was told if I just chop it in spring and brush the surface of the trunk it should give me plenty of backbuds, but the way its sounding it seems like more of a gamble.

 

[Gabler]

Doing what Sir?

I was told by an experienced bonsai artist in my local club just recently that I should plant some of my older trees into the ground to help them gain more vigor until the spring, which I would then pot them up again.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

They get full sun (but they are under a 30% shade cloth, moving them into the ground would be outside of the shade cloth and still in full sun.
I have been fertilizing, and perhaps part of the reason the juniper looks terrible is because I didn't really know what I was doing when I pruned it and left almost no foliage...
It makes sense to me to just not put trees in the ground for the winter and just be more cautious with watering, and then repot into better soil, but that would only be for the juniper. I am a little nervous about chopping back as well, but I was told if I just chop it in spring and brush the surface of the trunk it should give me plenty of backbuds, but the way its sounding it seems like more of a gamble.

I would only keep the azalea under the shade cloth. Juniper and cypress full sun all day long. You cant give a juniper enough sun.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Whether the azalea backbuds or not is determined by a number of things based upon our recent experiments and research.

- Health of tree I.e. Is there a critical mass of foliage, were cuts sealed, disease etc
- Type Cultivar - for one example a landscape cultivar is often stronger than some of the more recent satsuki
- How radical the cut is.
- Time of year
- Proper planting technique - if repotting/ground planting is done. Media, drainage, exposure to elements etc

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[ECMist]

Whether the azalea backbuds or not is determined by a number of things based upon our recent experiments and research.

- Health of tree I.e. Is there a critical mass of foliage, were cuts sealed, disease etc
- Type Cultivar - for one example a landscape cultivar is often stronger than some of the more recent satsuki
- How radical the cut is.
- Time of year
- Proper planting technique - if repotting/ground planting is done. Media, drainage, exposure to elements etc

Cheers
DSD sends

What would your general recommendations be for putting the azalea in the ground and chopping to maximize the survival/growth rate? I honestly have no clue what the exact species is either.