Pronunciation

qwade

Shohin
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My relatively short participation in the hobby of bonsai has been entirely online. A place where no one speaks. I recently had an occasion to use the word mame. I was politely corrected/replied to with the proper pronunciation. Made me wonder what other Bonsai/Japanese words I would incorrectly pronounce.
So I ask you to list, with your best phonetic spelling the words you see "Air Layers" commonly mis-pronounce. Maybe we could start with those Standard tree sizes.
 
May me? Maybe? Maim?
Me I go with small,medium,large and extra large. Extra large also falls under hernia maker. Heffen duty. Squirts. Beasts. Monsters. Everything but the proper names for me.
In all seriousness the size classifications only really matter if a person's going to show their trees. If I ever enter one in a show I guess I would have to break out a tape measure so I know what to call it. I believe most places won't go with nut buster size classification.
 
Satsuki. I pronounce it "Sat-skey" but some pronounce it "Sat-su-key". Apparently even the Japanese pronounce it both ways depending on the region...
 
The truth is, very few people in America probably pronounce any of these words correctly, they are Japanese words being spoken by American people.

I am from the South man, you probably couldn't understand half of what I say anyway if you are from anywhere father North than Va or father West than Texas! Lord knows we don't have a clue how to say any of this Bonzay crap 'round here!

Hell we even spell stuff different here! Just ask my CrEpe Myrtles about that...

If some AMERICAN is politely trying to correct you how to say a Japanese word, you should probably politely encourage them to go... Have relations with a lawn mower.

A more serious answer though is that with such varied dialects in our country and Japan, there IS no ONE WAY to pronounce most of these words... Even the word Bonsai itself can be pronounced a handful of ways depending on where you are and who you ask (Websters dictionary lists three or four different phonetic break downs for it alone). If you get close enough to effectively relay the message of what you are trying to say, that should be good enough.

Nothing grates my nerves more than some American go talks with zero accent normally, but they have some Italian connection in their family (or maybe they are just from jersey and think that counts?) so they say "Mozzarella"as if is spelled "Mozzzzarrrrrrrrrell", adding a 30 second tongue roll to it! Or Ricotta like their tongue just unzipped itself... They think all of a sudden they got to sound like some stereotype Pizza chef from an 80s movie! Just Stop... Please. Giada- that hot chock on Food network- is the worst offender! People who are snobs about how you say these Bonsai terms are comparably annoying IMO.

Nebari, Mame, Myogi... Whatever man.. Call them roots, call it informal upright, call it SMALL. This is AMRCA DNGIT!
 
Fukien is easy. The E is silent. At least that is how most people who have them say it that way I bet! It rolls right off the tongue.
 
There are 50 sounds in the Japanese language and these are represented phonetically in 'romanji'. With only a few exceptions (such as tsu) these phonemes are only one or two letters. Some example single letter ones are:

a said as 'ah'
e said as 'eh'
i said as 'ee'
o said as 'oh'
u said as 'oo'

What we say for the letter 'i' is phonetically ai (ah ee).

The Japanese word 'is' is desu which is pronounced 'des' - u at the end of a word is never pronounced. As noted in another comment, the 'su' sound and 'shi' (said: she) tend to be elided, but Japanese will correct a westerner who clearly is 'Americanizing', to pronounce it all. The are no stresses syllables in Japanese words - each sound had the same stress and duration - which is the most difficult aspect of pronouncing Japanese words.

bonsai --> boh n sa i
mame --> mah meh
shohin --> shoh heen

It is very simple and far easier than English, once you know the 50 sounds.
 
Yes
In my best Jersey accent that fukien tree tree is always a interesting one to pronunciate.
 
Thanks, O-so . . . You did a much better job than I was about to attempt.

If some AMERICAN is politely trying to correct you how to say a Japanese word, you should probably politely encourage them to go . . .

Same with ANYone who attempts to tell you how a plant's Latin Name is pronounced. Latin is a long-dead language; not even lawyers or priests can claim to know how it really sounded back in Nero's day.
 
bonsai --> boh n sa i
mame --> mah meh
shohin --> shoh heen

It is very simple and far easier than English, once you know the 50 sounds.

Thanks This is the info I seek. For example, back to mame. I pronounced it like made except with the m instead of the d. Not even close to the right way to say this. And although I could use big little and medium for sizes, i prefer that when in Rome, do as the romans do. Or at least be close.
Even shohin I see i had a little off. Any others that come to mind?
 
Curious if my mispronunciation was like fingernails to a chalkboard when speaking via phone to Steve with Plant City. He was polite enough not to correct me...but, would say the word the correct way. Which...I wasn't sure was southern twist...or I was that far off. Guess I was that far off. Lol well kudos to him for being a forgiving listener.

Good thread topic John!
 
If you'd like to learn how to pronounce the words from Japan correctly, just take an intro to Japanese course. Most should be able to pronounce the words correctly read and pronounce the romaji, hiragana, or katakana. If you don't want to take a course at least try a book or a video on YouTube.

Japanese words are extremely easy to pronounce compared to a lot from other languages. It's straight and to the point. I don't let it bother me much when I hear things pronounced incorrectly, but I think people ought to put some effort into learning some things like pronouncing the words.

Speaking of pronunciation, I actually watched Karate Kid for the first time recently. It was funny when Mr. Miyagi kept correcting the kiddo on pronouncing bonsai vs banzai and banzai vs bonsai; two different things.
 
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Thanks This is the info I seek. For example, back to mame. I pronounced it like made except with the m instead of the d. Not even close to the right way to say this. And although I could use big little and medium for sizes, i prefer that when in Rome, do as the romans do. Or at least be close.
Even shohin I see i had a little off. Any others that come to mind?

Not in Rome.
But I can see wanting to be able to say these words correctly. Got to know the jargon.
 
let see if I can try a couple of these pronunciations...

nebari...root base
mame - tiny
shohin - small
jin - dead branch
etc....


I have certainly used Japanese terms in the past but now I make an effort not to...

Beyond the word Bonsai...which I bet 2/3s of you mispronounce... why do we insist on using terms for which we have perfectly suited words for in english???(I was with a nutter yesterday that still hasn't figured out how to say bonsai:))

Just for the record, I took Nihongo in college....

If you feel the need for using Japanese words, that is obviously your choice...but you should at least make the effort to pronounce them correctly... Oso's post will lead you in the right direction.

John
 
Fukien tea - Fukee en tee
Mame' - Mah may
Shohin - Shoe en
Bonsai - Bone sigh

Ah but what happens to the size of trees - Mame' was 3" and under previously.
Or when the name chages in Latin - Texas Ebony - Pithecellobium flexicaule - Ebonopsis ..
Have fun.
Good Day
Anthony
 
I have certainly used Japanese terms in the past but now I make an effort not to...

Beyond the word Bonsai...which I bet 2/3s of you mispronounce... why do we insist on using terms for which we have perfectly suited words for in english???John

I think we use these words to separate our art/hobby from other horticulture endeavours. If we didn't use these words our hobby would be trees in a pot and this website would be called pottedtreenut.com. A nice nebari sounds better than your tree has nice roots. etc. etc.
 
Serious question: When the japanese discuss baseball, do they talk about balls and strikes or do they use japanese words for these things?
 
Serious question: When the japanese discuss baseball, do they talk about balls and strikes or do they use japanese words for these things?

No there are japanese words. Was this also an implied point?
 
Nope. Just a question. I assumed they'd refer to the conventions of baseball in japanese and not English, but wasn't sure. I figure if they don't worry about English terms for baseball, then we shouldn't care too much about Japanese terms for bonsai, though.
 
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