Problems with dieback on Coast Redwood

[JasonRedwood]

Hey everyone,

I am pretty new to bonsai, though i have read a few books and done quite a bit of research, so i'm not totally clueless (i also have a host of other plants).

I am having issues with my coast redwood lately, i've had it for a month, and it looks to be a year old (sapling, not yet in training). I bought it from a nursery in California (i'm in minnesota), just one of their stock trees, not intended for bonsai. It's about 18" tall now.

Right now, i'm just trying to grow out the trunk and and just the tree in general. I am having some problems pruning new growth at the top. My intention was to lightly prune to promote back budding and growth further down the trunk, as well as re-rout some vigor to the trunk itself.

A few days ago i pinched a small-ish brance (probably about 1.5 inches). Just the very tip of the branch, to stop it from growing, but since then the branch has wilted and died.

Any suggestions on how to avoid this? the tree has many new branches forming, and will need some pinching as spring comes.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

First, you should post photos to remove some of the guess work.
Second, how are you keeping this tree? Inside? Minnesota is pretty far from the coast, so it's not too surprising it's putting up a fight.
Third, I'd suggest you work with material suitable for your climate, and/or compliant tropicals such as ficus trees. It will make an already challenging hobby a bit more manageable if you work with material that will grow well in the conditions you can provide.
Finally, if you're trying to grow it out, why are you pinching it?

 

[Eric Schrader]

Your timeline description doesn't make sense to me as far as the pinching being the cause of the branch wilting. Is it possible that you damaged the branch at the base when you pinched off the tip?

Coast redwoods are pretty persnickety when it comes to branching. They will abandon large branches in favor of new shoots that come from the base of the branch, or node points along the branch. I can't say I've got them entirely figured out, but people around here try all kinds of different things.

I think the key for them is that you can't treat them like a juniper. The branches grow really fast and they will just die back if you try to twist them too much. Make a gentle branching pattern, allow the branches to elongate a lot more than your shilhouette and then cut back when the tree is growing uniformly and strongly.

And Brian is right - Minnesota is not a good place to be trying to grow a readwood. If you're overwintering it inside then it's likely on a downhill slope in terms of health. But, I'm not an expert on overwintering since I don't have to do it.

Also - if you you're trying to grow a trunk then forget about pinching. These things will bud out all over the place any time you cut them back and they are heathy. So grow your trunk until it's the size you want, then cut it back and start on the branching. You can try it simultaneously but I think you're just wasting time if you do (with redwood, other species you have to do it at the same time!)

 

[JasonRedwood]

Thanks for your response!

I'm growing it indoors right now, i do have a T5 grow light, so i can control the lighting a bit. I have also the pot in a tray of water (not submerged obviously) to get the humidity up, as minnesota is very dry in the winter months. Humidity near the middle of the plant hangs around 50% for most of the day.
The area of my house that it is in stays around 72 degree F all day, only dropping a little bit at night.

I know that the redwoods won't grow super well in my zone, but i love these trees, and set out for a more interesting and challenging experience. Also, the redwood is noy my first bonsai, i also have a willow that does quite well up here - but it is better suited for my climate and i understand that.

I was pinching the growth near the top to promote growth further down. As i understand it, these trees tend to grow upwards and lose their lower branches, so to promote taper early in its life, i was going to lightly prune the apex of the tree so that it can focus more energy to the lower branches.

I understand that my growing conditions for the redwood may not be optimal, but i would like to at least try growing it here.

thanks again for taking the time to help!

 

[JasonRedwood]

View media item 1034

 

[JasonRedwood]

Eric, i don't think i damaged the rest of the branch when i pinched, but it may be that i didn't let it elongate enough. I was trying to pinch the top few to allow the tree to use energy elseware, so i pinched it early. In the picture you can see the affected branch, then another that starting growing at the same time across from it.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

After growing Redwoods for several years I can tell you that the tree probably won't make it indoors. They're outdoor trees and need some sort of dormancy. I'm afraid Minnesota is too cold for them.

 

[coh]

It's not as cold here as in Minnesota, but I've got a few coast redwoods (3 to be exact), have kept one now for 7 years during which time it developed from a pencil-thick seedling to a 3.5" base tree (potted, of course)...which I'm now trying to develop branches on. I agree about them being finicky in terms of branch work. Last summer I did quite a bit of pruning and wiring on one, and I found that some of the branches produced new buds, but quite a few did not (and are now dying off). Not sure if it was timing, the amount of pruning/bending, or what.

I keep mine outdoors during the spring - fall, they spend their winters in an unheated mudroom that generally stays between 35-45 (occasionally down to about 30). They can tolerate some light frost/freezing but I wouldn't push it much past 30 F and I won't let the roots freeze solid. Brent Walston has said that his potted redwoods have handled temps well below freezing at times and I know that it can get below freezing in parts of their native area.

At the National exhibition this year someone displayed a stunning coast redwood. The owner was in the Chicago area and I talked to him a bit. He's had the tree in that area for many years so they can do well even in colder areas.

 

[JasonRedwood]

Ryan, the tree is only indoors for the harsher part of winter. I am prepared to simulate dormancy here in fall, without exposing the tree to 20 F or under. As Coh said, growers in chicago have had some luck, and i am in southern minnesota - it's not ideal, but i would like to try it.

Further, i was not looking for "don't try to grow redwoods in minnesota", i am asking about how to help the branches not die back after pinching.

Coh, have you seen pruning work better on older branches? I suspect that may be why i'm having trouble with this one.

 

[coh]

Coh, have you seen pruning work better on older branches? I suspect that may be why i'm having trouble with this one.

Can't really answer that yet. With my 7 year old tree, I've been mainly developing the trunk, so for the most part I just let the branches go. This past summer was the first time I did anything like "regular" pruning. Once I pull the trees out of storage I'll be in a better position to evaluate what made it and what didn't, and I'll try to remember to post an update. I won't know for certain until the spring growth starts, but the way this winter is going, that may be a while!

Chris

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Further, i was not looking for "don't try to grow redwoods in minnesota", i am asking about how to help the branches not die back after pinching.

Well then forgive me for offering my advice. I've tried to grow Coast Redwoods here in Northern VA without much luck, but best of luck to you anyway.

I wouldn't work on this tree at all until you get it outdoors, where it's supposed to be. It's used to an environment with temperature changes. You're going to get die-back when it's indoors under less light.

 

[Appliance Guy]

Two Redwoods discussing Redwoods??? Hmmm, odd...

 

[JasonRedwood]

Ryan, i do appreciate your advice, and thanks for the tip about pruning. I was just saying that yes, i know i'm not in their natural climate - but i'm trying to make it work, as i love these trees.

I will hold off until i can put it outside, but our average last frost is not for another month at least.

 

[garywood]

J,as Brian and Chris alluded, both ends of the spectrum must be taken into account, An understanding of the material and it's "needs" and being able to provide those needs. We have an old "saying" here in the South-- Is the juice worth the squeeze?

 

[coh]

J,as Brian and Chris alluded, both ends of the spectrum must be taken into account, An understanding of the material and it's "needs" and being able to provide those needs. We have an old "saying" here in the South-- Is the juice worth the squeeze?

It's a good question. For me, I've chosen to try and make coast redwoods work here because they remind me of good times I've had in California. My job used to send me out to Monterey once or twice a year and I grew to love the Big Sur coastal area - the rugged coastal mountains and beaches, hiking in redwood forests, etc. Haven't been back there in about 8 years, but when I work on the redwoods the fragrance brings me back (I know it sounds like a Calgon commercial).

But if it turns out that they are too much trouble here, I'll look to move them to someone in a better climate if possible. Hopefully it doesn't come to that! So far they seem to be doing well enough.

Chris

 

[daygan]

Jason, you said that the branch was only 1.5 inches in length. That's pretty small. If your profile picture is this same tree, then based on the information that you've given us, it seems like the branch that you pruned was barely one season old, and hasn't even lignified yet (developed hard wood)... If this is correct, then I can't imagine that "pinching" it under the current conditions would result in anything other than die-back. (by "current conditions" I mean - being indoors, in the winter, with far-less-than-optimal lighting).

I've never worked with redwoods so can't say that my conclusions are authoritative, so can anyone else with some experience comment on my observations?

 

[JasonRedwood]

The branch was new growth, and yes it's the same tree as my picture. It definitely was not lignified, but i was under the impression (from various websites) that pruning at this stage would help the tree develop in the long run.

And just for the record, i do have the tree under a light 16 hrs a day, plus it gets light from a west window - so lighting might not be optimal, but I wouldn't say it's "far from" optimal. I grow peppers in the same location, which require a lot of light and they do fine. (if you know the technicalities, the tree is getting about 12000 lux, which i know isn't as good as outdoors, but it's something).

What i'm gathering here is that i'm getting dieback because the branch was too young, yes? i should probably let the tree grow out for a while.

 

[sorce]

I wouldn't touch it at all!

Pretty drastic change from beginning to grow in CA, through hot\cold shipping, to inside MN.

If the tree could type, it would type WTF!

I'd get a couple more (spring)and just grow em outside in your winter . The one that makes it will....make it!

Sorce

 

[daygan]

To be honest, for trees, 12,000 lux really is quite far from optimal. To the human eye, of course, it may look bright, but it is significantly different from outside sunlight exposure, which can be 120,000 lux in the summer, and 65,000 lux in winter time. In fact, the lux in shade outside in the summer time is nearly twice what you are providing for your redwood right now. You can read the first paragraph in the section titled "LIGHT" in this article by Harry Harrington for more information on why I believe almost any kind of lighting indoors is not so optimal. So I do believe the word "far" is appropriate, but I don't want to split hairs with you on that Also, it's winter time, and coh would probably be a better person to offer advice about good winter treatment for redwoods. I've heard it said that conifers shouldn't get light exposure at all during winter dormancy, so maybe no light would even be better - I'm not sure.

What i'm gathering here is that i'm getting dieback because the branch was too young, yes?

That's what I think. Just waiting to see if anyone else says yay / nay. I've mostly just worked with deciduous broad-leaf trees myself up to this point.

i should probably let the tree grow out for a while.

Yes, you should! I would suggest not pruning it at all until its trunk is a good 2 or 3 inches in diameter, maybe more.

 

[JasonRedwood]

My issue with letting the tree grow out that much is that i don't have room for it. I just have a small patio, plus any space indoors for wintering.

My point with lighting was that it's better than a windowsil. It's really just to get some of my plants through until spring, and is not a long term solution. Also, on dormancy, the plant was dormant when i got it, but i was unable to keep it outside for most of january, being exposed to warmer temps in my apartment it's come out and started "spring" growth.

Thanks for your help though