Principles of Bonsai design David de groot

[chicago1980]

Principles of Bonsai Design by David De Groot. When comparing the two books, are there any major difference between the original print and the newly updated version? I want to add one to my collection of books, but notice there is a large difference in price. Thank you.

 

[coh]

I own the revised version and have seen the original. The new book is very well done, lots of good photos to illustrate the design principles which are covered in depth. The original book was good but from what I can recall, much shorter with fewer photos/illustrations. I'd like to get a copy of the original but haven't really looked to see what the prices are like.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

The copy I have is "Basic Bonsai Design" in the spiral binding. Is that the original version you are referring to?

 

[markyscott]

I have both. The new version of the book is a huge upgrade over the first edition. It's over double the length (264 pages vs 102 pages) has far more figures and illustrations (500) and a much better binding (hard cover vs spiral bound). The new edition is definitely worth the price - it's my go to book for bonsai design. Dave was one of my first teachers when I first became interested in bonsai and I have tremendous respect for his knowledge on this topic. The book is well written and one of the few on my shelf I return to time and again for a refresher.

Scott

 

[Paradox]

I also have both and I agree with Scott. The second one is well worth buying.

 

[chicago1980]

Thank you everyone. I ordered the new version.

 

[tstrum]

I am looking to grow my knowledge in bonsai and have heard really good things about this book. I have also heard that Bonsai Technique 1-2 are the best, but since they are impossible to get, does Principles of Bonsai Design make a decent substitute?

 

[markyscott]

I am looking to grow my knowledge in bonsai and have heard really good things about this book. I have also heard that Bonsai Technique 1-2 are the best, but since they are impossible to get, does Principles of Bonsai Design make a decent substitute?

I strongly recommend David's book.

I will always keep my old copies of Bonsai Techniques 1&2 because I bought them at a John Naka demo in Sacramento when I was first starting out in bonsai. He was a wonderfully kind man and did a lot to expand interest in bonsai across the US. But I don't refer to them any longer for information on technique - they are out-of-date with respect to how I practice bonsai today.

There is an overlap in content, but it's not 100%. David's book is specifically directed at design, composition and display. It does so at a much deeper level then anything in John's books and explains the concepts behind the main topic much more thoroughly. But it doesn't go into the horticultural aspects of bonsai at all and those topics are discussed in John's books.

Scott

 

[tstrum]

Thank you Scott! That's exactly what I was hoping to hear. If I get David's book for the design aspects, is there a book you would recommend to supplement to get the horticultural aspects?

 

[AZbonsai]

Hey guys who are you ordering the book through?

 

[chicago1980]

If you want

I strongly recommend David's book.

I will always keep my old copies of Bonsai Techniques 1&2 because I bought them at a John Naka demo in Sacramento when I was first starting out in bonsai. He was a wonderfully kind man and did a lot to expand interest in bonsai across the US. But I don't refer to them any longer for information on technique - they are out-of-date with respect to how I practice bonsai today.

There is an overlap in content, but it's not 100%. David's book is specifically directed at design, composition and display. It does so at a much deeper level then anything in John's books and explains the concepts behind the main topic much more thoroughly. But it doesn't go into the horticultural aspects of bonsai at all and those topics are discussed in John's books.

Scott

Exactly what I would have written. David's book is 100% written as a design book. Another book I have as a companion is Point and Line to Plane. This is another great book on design principles that can be applied to Bonsai.

Add David's book to your collection.

 

[chicago1980]

Hey guys who are you ordering the book through?

http://www.stonelantern.com/Principles_of_Bonsai_Tree_Design_p/b1prin.htm

 

[tstrum]

Yeah stonelantern is where I found it as well.

For the horticultural aspects, what is the best book?

 

[chicago1980]

Yeah stonelantern is where I found it as well.

For the horticultural aspects, what is the best book?

I found several local clubs and visit them all to gain knowledge on my local environment and care.

 

[markyscott]

Thank you Scott! That's exactly what I was hoping to hear. If I get David's book for the design aspects, is there a book you would recommend to supplement to get the horticultural aspects?

In terms of horticulture and technique, I have many books and videos. Of those, there are a very few that I return to often as a refresher or reference. It would be helpful to know what species you're growing. In terms of technique, I'm guessing you're a beginner (please forgive me if I've presumed too much). So I'll mention a couple of general resources for basic techniques with general species.

1. I like Bjorn's beginner and intermediate courses. They're both excellently well done and go into sufficient depth on a broad range of species to get you started. The intermediate course has a strong focus on refinement rather than development of material, but it's quite well done overall. http://www.bonsaiempire.com/courses
2. I like Boon's video series. He covers a monstrous range of topics including repotting, wiring, developing and refining broadleaf trees, pines, and junipers. It's very well produced and the explanations are clear and easy to follow. You can buy the DVDs or get the streaming license. http://bonsaiboon.com/pages/shopping/shopping-VOD.html
3. I like Colin Lewis' online courses. He has two and they're both on Craftsy. Bonsai Wiring Essentials is free and Bonsai Design Techniques you have to purchase. They're both excellent.
4. I still go back to the old issues of Bonsai Today and International Bonsai fairly often. The older issues of Bonsai Today are especially good - many of the articles are translations from Kinbon and other Japanese magazines and are really good. I go back to them frequently. You can still order back issues from Stone Lantern (http://www.stonelantern.com/Bonsai_Today_Magazine_Bonsai_Tree_How_to_Care_p/btb.htm) and used issues are often available on ebay.
5. I really like Classical Bonsai Art by Bill Valavanis. He has a number of progressions in his book that are really worth following. He has been an institution in US bonsai for decades and has documented the development of several of his fine bonsai from nursery stock over the course of decades. The progressions are really worth a study. This will be out of print soon, so don't wait to order it if you want it. http://www.internationalbonsai.com/page/14428190
6. I really like Kyusuke Gun's books. They are all in Japanese, but they are excellently well illustrated and easy to follow from the illustrations. They are issued by species and style - so there are books on Black Pine, Japanese Maple, Shohin, etc. They are all good and you can get many of them on Amazon. For instance, here's one on shimpaku: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/4540910701/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
7. I like Peter Adams book Bonsai with Japanese Maples: https://www.amazon.com/Bonsai-Japanese-Maples-Peter-Adams/dp/0881928097
8. I go back to some of the old Kokufu-ten books fairly often. I have four or five of them. It's an education to study the masterpieces to learn how they were developed.

But in the end, I've learned the most from practicing and studying with my teachers. Dave DeGroot was my first teacher around 25 years ago and I've been working with Boon for the past 5 years.

Scott

 

[tstrum]

Scott,

Thank you for such a thorough response, it is greatly appreciated! I am new to bonsai, I found bonsai about this time last year. But I have become extremely engrossed in it and it has quickly developed into a passion (as much as it can in a year I guess). I have taken both of Bjorn's courses, and they are very helpful. I have watched the videos a few times now. As well as his Bonsai Art of Japan video series. I am also working my way through Boon's videos. Those are great! The other suggestions are next on my list!

I have also hooked up with several members from our local club and they are letting me assist in working on their trees. I only have 8 trees so that's my best chance to get hands on experience with more trees and more varieties.

I think you list of suggestions should be published to the Resources section, I think all newbies should be directed to it.

Thank you!!!

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

Yeah stonelantern is where I found it as well.

For the horticultural aspects, what is the best book?

I recently bought a newly published book, "Modern Bonsai Practice, 501 Principles" by Larry Morton. I it is the most in depth book on bonsai horticulture I have ever seen. I am still reading it and would recommend it to anyone that wants to dig into the hows and whys of growing bonsai. I think some will find Morton's findings controversial but every thing he brings out is based on actual practice and research instead of passing on rumors or old wives tails of bonsai care. All the photos in the book are Walter Paul bonsai and that alone is worth the price of admission.

 

[chicago1980]

I recently bought a newly published book, "Modern Bonsai Practice, 501 Principles" by Larry Morton. I it is the most in depth book on bonsai horticulture I have ever seen. I am still reading it and would recommend it to anyone that wants to dig into the hows and whys of growing bonsai. I think some will find Morton's findings controversial but every thing he brings out is based on actual practice and research instead of passing on rumors or old wives tails of bonsai care. All the photos in the book are Walter Paul bonsai and that alone is worth the price of admission.

I will buy this book in two weeks. Thank you. Does the book line up with some of Walter Pall's discussions on horticulture?

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

I will buy this book in two weeks. Thank you. Does the book line up with some of Walter Pall's discussions on horticulture?

Can't answer that one. To me it seems to be the authors own work. I don't know his credentials but from all the references he seems to be connected to North Carolina. I live in NC and am going to try and find out more about him.

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

I will buy this book in two weeks. Thank you. Does the book line up with some of Walter Pall's discussions on horticulture?

If you go on Amazon and look the book up, expand the "read more" in the brief description and you get the entire table of contents. And there is other info about the book and author down the page.