Pines in Johannesburg, South Africa - What are they?

[SeanS]

Trying to find out what kind of pines might be growing in my area of Johannesburg, South Africa. Namely Bryanston, Sandton area. Google says we have 3 main pines in SA;

• Pinus Pinaster
• Pinus Radiata
• Pinus Pinea (Stone Pine)

I think they're pinasters, or maritime pines, but we're up in the interior of the country at high elevation so not sure considering the pinasters like being closer to sea level. But the bark does match what googling "pine pinaster bark" brings up.

Any info?

google streetview from my drive to work, and a streetview link showing the bark

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pinus pinaster bark - Google Search

 

[Shibui]

They don't have the right shape for stone pine.
P. radiata have 3 needles per fascicle so relatively easy to identify.
I am not familiar with maritime pine from my area but I understand there are a lot more in Queensland. They must do better in warmer areas?

 

[SeanS]

Thanks @Shibui I’ll try get hold of a branch and check the needles.

There are a couple of young trees growing along my route to work in the roadside brush, trying to find out if it’s worth collecting one. There’s one that’s about 50cm tall now and looks to be 20cm tall in the October 2017 streetview photos, so I’m guessing it’s at least 5 years old maybe?

 

[Shibui]

They don't actually look much like radiata either.
If it is as slow growing a that it may take years to develop into anything worthwhile unless maybe conditions are slowing growth where it is.

Cones are important in pine ID so see if you can get a photo of a cone. Both shape and size is useful info so some scale in the photo would be helpful. Bark can also help in ID so another photo of the lower trunk may help. Close up shot of needle bundles will give more ID info if you can manage a good clear close up shot.

 

[SeanS]

@Shibui does this streetview help with the bark? I’ll get a proper pic soon

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Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

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[Shibui]

Do you think if I give Joe a ring he will pop over and do some painting for me? Not sure if he also does tilling or tiling. That extra L makes quite a difference

That pic is good for the bark.
Looks a lot like the large bark plates on ponderosa pine I've seen in parks and gardens over here but I'm not really familiar enough with them to give you a definitive ID on bark. I've just searched Pinus pinaster bark images but now just confused. I know we should not rely on random websites but images of bark show many different bark types for P. pinaster.
P. pinaster has needles in pairs. P. ponderosa usually has needles in 3s like radiata.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Cones, a description of the cones is usually diagnostic, the key trait, that separates one pine species from another. Of note are the presence or absence of spines,, or prickles, on the cones, whether they stay closed, or open at maturity, and other such traits.

Average number of needles in fascicles is another diagnostic. Range of length of needles is a diagnostic.
Bark is only a general trait, not always a reliable diagnostic.

Pinus pinaster - is noted to be widely invasive in SA, so just probability wise, a good candidate. Noted for long & stout needles in pairs, up to 25 cm long. Needles are stiff, and relatively thick, sharp point tip.

Pinus pinaster - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Pinus pinea - stone pine - Umbrella pine, Stone pine - these really have an "umbrella" shape, they naturally have a wide spreading crown as mature trees and young trees are shrubby, often pretty wide.
Needles in 2's, length 10 to 20 cm, this means the longest needles are 5 cm less than P. pinaster. Needles are flexible compared to P. pinaster. Juvenile foliage common in trees less than 10 years old.
read Wiki for detail description of cone

Stone pine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Pinus radiata - usually 3 needles per fascicle, there is a variety with 2 needles, but most likely in SA, it will be 3 per fascicle. Needles 8 to 15 cm in length, key feature, BLUNT tips to the needles. read wiki for cone description.

Pinus radiata - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So grab a branch to get a good look at the needles, grab a cone and read the details of description in Wikipedia, you will be able to figure it out.

 

[SeanS]

Do you think if I give Joe a ring he will pop over and do some painting for me? Not sure if he also does tilling or tiling. That extra L makes quite a difference

For the right price Joe will do anything you need him to...

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Just happened to stumble across the description for Pinus kesiya and noticed that wikipedia says it is planted in plantations in South Africa. It is also a 3 needle pine. So possibly another candidate for your South African pine. It is in the same subsection with P. radiata & P. thunbergii.

It may be a moot point. But once you have "the full list of candidates", it becomes easier to definitively narrow down to a specific identity for your pines.

Pinus kesiya - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org