permatill in soil mixes.

[Beetleman72]

In the past I have used automotive spill absorbent and nothing else as a soil (sifted of course) and that works pretty well but it's a little more dense than I would like, so I've started mixing permatill (expanded slate)and pine bark fines. I have a few questions: ideally how long should the soil take to dry out? The permatill are up to a half inch, is that too large? The spill absorbent after sifted contains particles ranging from one mm to one cm about. Is one mm too small? Also I mix in either espoma planttone or happy frog organic fertilizer. Is this ok or should I be fertilizing from the top?

 

[Poink88]

If you have access to Turface, I suggest you get some and give it a try. Half inch is a bit too big IMHO. I've read that planttone is a good fertilizer BUT will turn into mush and can clog your soil. No experience with it though.

Right now, my goal is for my soil to drain properly but remain moist up to 2 days due to our hot summers and for when I am out of town on weekends. So far I haven't seen problem with root deteriorating or rot. I am sure others will say it is crazy but I have my reasons and so far no problems. The 2 day moisture is getting shorter though as my plants grow thicker foliage (and it is not even summer yet). I know it will get worse once they move to proper bonsai pots as well.

I use a bit of slow release granule and water soluble fertilizer at least once a week. I tried a more diluted solution and done every watering but it was too much work. ... reverted back to once a week.

 

[Beetleman72]

I have experienced a little mushyness with the oil dry and espoma. I'm not sure if its the espoma or the silica dust that that didn't get sifted out properly but I am inclined to believe that its the espoma. There is no place within an hour that I've found that sells turface, and I've looked oil dry is the only calcinated clay product I've found. What is the maximum and minimum particle size in your opinion Dario?

 

[Poink88]

I don't sift but still get good drainage. From what I've read, the smallest used to sift is regular window screen. Max is about 1/4" but it really depends on your tree size IMHO. if you have big ones, then use bigger if you want.

I used to use Oil-Dri...then stopped when I found Turface. Like you, I noticed it gets too dense after a while. Now, I am planning on experimenting and adding a little bit of Oil-Dri to the Turface (about 10%). This is because some roots seem to love Oil-Dri.

 

[Poink88]

I have experienced a little mushyness with the oil dry and espoma.

No experience with espoma but oil dri (esp in your climate) may be the culprit (or both). It does break down...faster on some areas than others (freeze thaw). Some of mine which are more than a year old are still intact but some also deteriorated.

Come to think of it...I will not experiment with it anymore and just buy Akadama (and Kanuma) and use a little of it as additive to my Turface/bark mix. Sigh.

 

[Stan Kengai]

I use permatil in my larger mixes as a substitute for pumice because I can't (cost effectively) get pumice over 3/16". It's similar to pumice, but not quite as open or light and it retains water longer. Like pumice, it has to be washed to get rid of the fines, unless you're using a mesh pot or colander. It works great for me with scoria and akadama, but the drab gray color leaves something to be desired aesthetically.

 

[Beetleman72]

I use permatil in my larger mixes as a substitute for pumice because I can't (cost effectively) get pumice over 3/16". It's similar to pumice, but not quite as open or light and it retains water longer. Like pumice, it has to be washed to get rid of the fines, unless you're using a mesh pot or colander. It works great for me with scoria and akadama, but the drab gray color leaves something to be desired aesthetically.

I have my JBP in collanders with the mix previously described and with the brown color of myoil dri I think it looks nice. I live in a pretty remote area so I have no access to turface, pumice, or even decomposed granite (I'm going to try the feed and seed stores for granite chicken grit but so far no luck) so I use what I have available here. I think I've figured out a system to keep them watered and fertilized when I'm at work or out of town. I have the collanders sitting on top of some hanging baskets with no water holes to decrease the drying effect of the wind but I think I can set up basically a hydroponic system to flood them for 10 mins during the day and then drain back to a reservoir. In that way I will also save fertilizer by re-using what the soil won't hold. Sound like a decent idea?

 

[rockm]

No luck finding Gran-I-Grit in N.C.? It's quarried there, in Mt. Airy, north of you up against the Virginia line.

http://www.ncgranite.com/gritmailer.pdf
http://www.ncgranite.com/

Phone is
336-786-5141. Give them a call and ask about a local distributor. You're looking for the grower, starter or developer grades. You can also use the Turkey grade, but it can be a bit on the coarse side.

 

[fraser67]

I've had the privilege and pleasure of meeting and speaking at length with Gary Ishii at Chikugo-en Bonsai Nursery here in SoCal, (He's been mentioned in a handful of threads here)... He uses 3/8" sifted 50/50 pumice and akadama for a drainage layer then a 1/4" equal part mix of turface, akadama and pumice exclusively for Everything.
I realize soil is a highly debated topic and certainly everyone has they're reasons for using they're own mix, especially when it comes to locale and cost...I was just blown away by his trees and the fact his family (I believe) has been in the bonsai business for 8 generations.
Needless to say, I'm trying his mix this year...so far, so good.

 

[sbarnhardt]

I'm going to give Perma-Till a try this summer. It's not that easy to find here, which is strange since it's produced about 30 minutes from me, but I haven't been able to find anyone with pumice near me. I paid $14.40 for a 40lb bag today. Don't know if that's good or bad. I paid it and that the way it is.

 

[drew33998]

I use permatill but it is very large particles. Would only use it with large trees or for drainage layer.

 

[sbarnhardt]

I use permatill but it is very large particles. Would only use it with large trees or for drainage layer.

You're very probably right. It's one of those things where I may need to mix some more soil and wanted to try something other than the oil dri/sand/Baccto Potting Soil mix I've been using. Couldn't find pumice, but could this. So, being tired of "reading" about it, decided to buy some to give it a try. Could be the last I'll buy, but won't know till I try it. Guess I'll see, huh??

 

[DougB]

Chicken grit, granite, is available in NC at Tractor Supply.

 

[drew33998]

Yes I too got away from oil dry. It turns into mush in my environment in no time. I used permatill with another product called hydrolite and chopped sphagnum this year and the trees seem to love it. Have azaleas, junipers, Chinese and Japanese quinces in it and all seem to be doing well. The permatill holds almost no water at all so I would use it with something that does, otherwise you may have some problems.

 

[lucany]

I'm going to give Perma-Till a try this summer. It's not that easy to find here, which is strange since it's produced about 30 minutes from me, but I haven't been able to find anyone with pumice near me. I paid $14.40 for a 40lb bag today. Don't know if that's good or bad. I paid it and that the way it is.

if you can find it a SITEONE location they sell a metric ton for $180 so your 40 lb bag actually cost $ 0.02...you can go with a container and they fill and pay by weight, being so light it is very cheap for the quantity you can get.