Other JBP varieties

drew33998

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Just curious is anyone trying something other than standard jbp? I thought about mikawa but the seeds are expensive and i doubt the authenticity of it.
 

DirkvanDreven

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I've been growing jbp from seed with an unknown origin.
So now I wanted to use seed that was claimed to have come from Mikawa.
I ordered these
Screenshot_2017-11-16-18-00-52.png

But got these
Screenshot_2017-11-16-18-01-21.png
Stil waiting for the right seeds.
But there's stil time.
 

drew33998

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I'm just trying out standard Pinus Thunbergi
JBP-1 Source, China, Year 2016
JBP-2 Source Unknown, Year Unknown
Florida Sand Pine(not part of the contest)
Virginiana Pine Improved(not part of the contest)
 

Bonsai Nut

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Mikawa can be a somewhat vague term since it refers to a part of the country, and not really to a specific variety or cultivar. It would be a little like me saying "California bristlecone pine" - because the seeds came from a bristlecone pine in California. Immediately people would ask - yeah, but what species of bristlecone? Because JBP seeds can come from any JBP tree, in a perfect world you would want to know exactly which tree they came from. Are the seeds from any random Mikawa pine growing somewhere in that region? Or are they from a specific well-known Mikawa tree that has amazing features? It is almost impossible to know...

In the world of JBP cultivars, one of the classic ones is P. thunbergii 'kotobuki' - a dwarf variety that has short, thick, dark green needles (and which, ironically, happens to be from the Mikawa region of Japan). On one single individual of P. thunbergii 'kotobuki' there was a witch's broom genetic aberration, and the foliage of the witch's broom was soft and lighter green. From this single tree was born P. thunbergii 'kotobuki yatsubusa' which many nurseries now simply refer to as 'yatsubusa' (refer to the photo below - the lower part of the tree is kotobuki, the upper part is the original kotobuki yatsubusa).

kotobuki_yatsufusa.jpg

Yatsubusa has some very positive characteristics, including the propensity to back-bud pretty much everywhere. I noticed after re-reading the Bonsai Today #20 article, that the Japanese grower featured in the article (Mr. Matsuo) mentions that he only uses yatsubusa seeds. I didn't know they existed... someone obviously has some big yatsubusa trees out there somewhere. I have done searches for kotobuki or yatsubusa seeds, and have been unable to find mention of either. I happen to own both kotobuki and yatsubusa cultivars, and wish I had seeds, but I have no idea where to go to source any. For that matter, I have no idea if the seeds of either cultivar remain genetically true to the parent trees - since they are all grafted cultivars. Yatsubusa is a grafted cultivar of a genetic aberration on a grafted cultivar :) Who knows what a seed from that tree would get you...
 
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theone420

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yeah I'm trying several sources just to see if there is a difference. I got some mikawa from a different dist. than you and I ordered those same mikawa you ordered. Plus 4 other sources for JBP 2 seed farms and 2 amazon sellers that claim to hand pick the seeds when you order.
 

Bonsai Nut

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For what it's worth, I dropped an email to George Muranaka @ Muranaka Bonsai Nursery. George has decades of experience at field-growing JBP here in the US. He sources his Mikawa seeds from Japan. I asked him if he had ever heard of anyone obtaining or selling Yatsubusa seeds - here in the US or in Japan. His response:

I have a yatsubusa pine and I have never seen a pine cone in over 35 years that we have had the tree. This tree is quite large and was grafted. We graft our own yatsubusa near the roots of the host plant. I have never seen seeds for sale.
 

Brent

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We have been growing JBP cultivars for over twenty years. We have grown a couple from cuttings, but those are now only available as specimen plants. We still low graft what we consider the best cultivars for bonsai as two or three year well established grafts. They are not cheap, not like growing from seed, but on the other hand, they are probably the best, and in some cases the only way to obtain these unique cultivar grafts in the US market. Two of our best sellers are actually DWARF cork bark cultivars: 'Hayabusa' and 'Brocade'. They can be found on this page: http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/pinus.htm

We will also offer some four year old seedling grown named strains, mikawa, nishiki, and one other that slips my mind. But for my money these seedling strains claims are way overblown as to superior characteristics. If you want something truly different, get a culitvar.

Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com
 

drew33998

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Mikawa can be a somewhat vague term since it refers to a part of the country, and not really to a specific variety or cultivar. It would be a little like me saying "California bristlecone pine" - because the seeds came from a bristlecone pine in California. Immediately people would ask - yeah, but what species of bristlecone? Because JBP seeds can come from any JBP tree, in a perfect world you would want to know exactly which tree they came from. Are the seeds from any random Mikawa pine growing somewhere in that region? Or are they from a specific well-known Mikawa tree that has amazing features? It is almost impossible to know...

In the world of JBP cultivars, one of the classic ones is P. thunbergii 'kotobuki' - a dwarf variety that has short, thick, dark green needles (and which, ironically, happens to be from the Mikawa region of Japan). On one single individual of P. thunbergii 'kotobuki' there was a witch's broom genetic aberration, and the foliage of the witch's broom was soft and lighter green. From this single tree was born P. thunbergii 'kotobuki yatsubusa' which many nurseries now simply refer to as 'yatsubusa' (refer to the photo below - the lower part of the tree is kotobuki, the upper part is the original kotobuki yatsubusa).

View attachment 167507

Yatsubusa has some very positive characteristics, including the propensity to back-bud pretty much everywhere. I noticed after re-reading the Bonsai Today #20 article, that the Japanese grower featured in the article (Mr. Matsuo) mentions that he only uses yatsubusa seeds. I didn't know they existed... someone obviously has some big yatsubusa trees out there somewhere. I have done searches for kotobuki or yatsubusa seeds, and have been unable to find mention of either. I happen to own both kotobuki and yatsubusa cultivars, and wish I had seeds, but I have no idea where to go to source any. For that matter, I have no idea if the seeds of either cultivar remain genetically true to the parent trees - since they are all grafted cultivars. Yatsubusa is a grafted cultivar of a genetic aberration on a grafted cultivar :) Who knows what a seed from that tree would get you...
Only if the bristlecone pines in California had thicker texture bark and naturally smaller needles.
 

drew33998

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We have been growing JBP cultivars for over twenty years. We have grown a couple from cuttings, but those are now only available as specimen plants. We still low graft what we consider the best cultivars for bonsai as two or three year well established grafts. They are not cheap, not like growing from seed, but on the other hand, they are probably the best, and in some cases the only way to obtain these unique cultivar grafts in the US market. Two of our best sellers are actually DWARF cork bark cultivars: 'Hayabusa' and 'Brocade'. They can be found on this page: http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/pinus.htm

We will also offer some four year old seedling grown named strains, mikawa, nishiki, and one other that slips my mind. But for my money these seedling strains claims are way overblown as to superior characteristics. If you want something truly different, get a culitvar.

Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com
Brent we couldn't hope to even come close to the stuff you guys put out. Trying to grow something that looks like bonsai at the end of 6 years. Funds providing of course.
 
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