Not sure what to do w/ my Serissa!

MooPai

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Hi,

Since I got the Serissa, I have not had a single week where it looked good, It's always losing leaves, turning yellow and falling off. I changed locations and watering sequence etc, nothing seems to work. It's frustrating to see it losing leaves all the time. The interesting part, it's always growing new leaves but they don't last for more than a week. I even fertilize it...

The shop where I bought told me to water it two to three times a week which did not work. Now I'm down to watering it once every five days which also not working. When I water, I start with half cup and once I see the water in the bottom plate I stop. I have it sitting next to a window where it has more than enough light. I'm careful not to have too much Sun light but again nothing is working.

Any recommendation would be greatly appreciated! Here's few pictures...
 

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Where are you located? I would put it outside and under sun and water freely. Serissa tips will wilt if you are under water.
 
Where are you located? I would put it outside and under sun and water freely. Serissa tips will wilt if you are under water.
I'm located in Canada and the weather now is getting cold. Just so I understand this correctly, does Serissa like direct Sun? I read somewhere that it like light but not direct Sun. What do you mean by water freely? Rain?
 
I'm located in Canada and the weather now is getting cold. Just so I understand this correctly, does Serissa like direct Sun? I read somewhere that it like light but not direct Sun. What do you mean by water freely?
Now that I know you are in Canada which is completely different then my climate...
Like most trees, Serissas do like direct sunlight. I have mine out in pretty much full sun. They do drop leave when they are not having enough water and the outside temp is high. They will put out new leave when temp cools down though. I have a couple groups that are growing new leave and flowers right now. I only bring them into a shed if temperature is below 40 F for an extended period. They can take some cold.
Water freely means water with a garden hose until the water runs out of the drainage holes.
 
Now that I know you are in Canada which is completely different then my climate...
Like most trees, Serissas do like direct sunlight. I have mine out in pretty much full sun. They do drop leave when they are not having enough water and the outside temp is high. They will put out new leave when temp cools down though. I have a couple groups that are growing new leave and flowers right now. I only bring them into a shed if temperature is below 40 F for an extended period. They can take some cold.
Water freely means water with a garden hose until the water runs out of the drainage holes.
How many times do you water yours when you bring it inside?
 
How many times do you water yours when you bring it inside?
I bring my into the shed and not the house for a few days. We don't get freezing more then a few days. I normally try to water them before bring them in the water them again when they come out. In the shed they don't use as much water as inside a heated house
 
I bring my into the shed and not the house for a few days. We don't get freezing more then a few days. I normally try to water them before bring them in the water them again when they come out. In the shed they don't use as much water as inside a heated house
But the interesting part, we don't even have the heat on yet, AC still running!
 
But the interesting part, we don't even have the heat on yet, AC still running!
Then it needs to be outside in a sunny location and water normally. The yellow leave will drop but it should put out new leave. If the low temp is still above 40, I would suggest leave it outside until the temp consistently below 40 F.
 
I've gotten a lot of yellow leaves by letting the soil get dry on mine. So, don't let it dry out, when it's hot I water daily when it's indoors only when needed, a few times a week. From what I understand its a bog tree, and they like to stay on the wet side.

Mine is outside as soon it's warm enough. :)
 
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I've gotten a lot of yellow leaves by letting the soil get dry on mine. So, don't let it dry out, when it's hot I water daily when it's indoors only when needed, a few times a week. From what I understand its a bog tree, and they like to stay on the wet side.

Mine is outside as soon it's warm enough. :)
When your tree is inside, how much water to give it? A full cup or more? I usually start with a full cup and if I don't see the water coming down through the drains I add a little more until I see it. Before watering once a week, I was watering three times and the leaves were still turning yellow and brown, that's why I cut it back to once a week. I have other Bonsai's, they are not as picky as this one. Sometime I see it flowering but the flower doesn't hold for more than a day or two.
 
When your tree is inside, how much water to give it? A full cup or more? I usually start with a full cup and if I don't see the water coming down through the drains I add a little more until I see it. Before watering once a week, I was watering three times and the leaves were still turning yellow and brown, that's why I cut it back to once a week. I have other Bonsai's, they are not as picky as this one. Sometime I see it flowering but the flower doesn't hold for more than a day or two.

Watering is a difficult topic.

How to water:
When you water, you flood the pot with water. Every square inch of surface should be flooded with water in the process. Water quantity should be enough that water runs out the drainage holes of the pot. You should always water with enough volume of water that water runs out the drainage holes, not just dribble a drop or two.. I often use a bucket of water, and dunk the tree in the water (gently of course) and hold it just barely submerged and watch the bubbles. When the bubbling stops, I remove the tree and set it on a tray to drain (or the sideboard of the kitchen sink). After the pot has drained for a few minutes, I return the pot to its spot where I am growing the tree.

Outdoors, I'll use the garden hose, and repeatedly spray the tree until I see water running out from under the trees. Always water with sufficient quantities of water that the entire volume of the pot is flooded, then allow to drain. Dry pockets can cause problems. Flooding your trees with water, then allowing to drain is the better technique.

So indoors I either take all my trees to the sink, and water there, or I dunk them in a bucket or pan of water, to at least as deep as the rim of the pot.
There is no good way to just dribble water into a pot indoors. Bonsai soils do not wick moisture around like peat based houseplant soils. You must flood all the soil in the pot. Then let it drain.

When to water:
First, the best measuring instruments to determine how wet or dry your soil or potting media is, are the human finger and your eyes. No electronic gadget will work as well in a home setting as using your finger and your eyes. Dig your finger into the potting media at least as deep as the base of your fingernail or first knuckle. If the media feels cool and moist, then no need to water. If the media feels dry, with no noticeable temperature change, then you should have watered a few hours to a day earlier. Goal is to thoroughly drench your plant to get all the media in the pot thoroughly wet. Then you want the tree to dry to the "Just Barely Moist" stage. Bone dry is too dry except for cactus. Barely moist is tricky to learn, the old standard was about the moisture level of pipe tobacco, but hardly anyone smokes a pipe anymore. Key is, most trees will show signs of wilting as they get past the point of ideal dryness. This is where the eyeballs come in, you can with time see whether a tree needs water just by how the leaves are being held. Let a tree dry to wilting, you will have damaged the fine tender roots. But just before wilting there is a slight angle change in the presentation of the leaves. Once you learn to see that, you can tell from across the room or across the yard whether your tree is in urgent need of water.

Really successful bonsai growers do not put their trees on a watering schedule. Key is to check your trees daily, or twice a day especially in hot weather. Temperatures vary daily, humidity varies, cloud cover varies: therefore the time between watering will vary. If you put your trees on a rigid schedule, you are guaranteed to kill them. Check trees to see if they need water once or twice a day, ONLY water if they need to be watered. It might be as often as twice a day in hot, dry, sunny weather. It might be once every week in cool weather. In winter, while fully dormant, I have had trees go 2 months without needing water when stored in my underground well house.

Even trees grown indoors on the windowsill will have variation in how frequently they need water depending on humidity and temperature. A pattern will emerge, and you may be able to predict when you trees will need water. But you need to check frequently, at least daily until you really know your trees.

So check daily, and water only when needed. Frequency of watering will change with the weather.

Water quality:
Water quality is a complex topic. In general, municipal water from most cities is adequate for bonsai. Individual wells usually are good. USDA generally says water with 600 ppm or less total dissolved solids is adequate for most general nursery and greenhouse operations without additional treatment. (specialty plant crops might be exceptions).

Fertilizer:
There are many ways to fertilize. If you are using a liquid fertilizer, or a fertilizer that you dissolve in a liquid, follow the product label directions to make up your solution. Remember, fertilizing is NOT WATERING. Best practice is to water your trees immediately before applying liquid fertilizer solution. Let your trees drain, then apply liquid fertilizer solution, allow to drain again. Then return tree to growing area.

NEVER water a dry to wilting tree with a fertilizer solution. Always water with clear water first. Then you can water with fertilizer after the tree has recovered from the drought stress. Some growers use "Continuous Feeding" programs. In general continuous feeding can lead to problems. Water with clear water at least once every 3rd or 4th watering if you are doing "Continuous Feeding". Doing so will flush out any accumulations of nutrient imbalances and greatly improve the results from the "continuous feeding" program.

So this is a brief class in watering. I've barely touched on the nuances, but key is to wet all the media in the pot when you do water.
 
Watering is a difficult topic.

How to water:
When you water, you flood the pot with water. Every square inch of surface should be flooded with water in the process. Water quantity should be enough that water runs out the drainage holes of the pot. You should always water with enough volume of water that water runs out the drainage holes, not just dribble a drop or two.. I often use a bucket of water, and dunk the tree in the water (gently of course) and hold it just barely submerged and watch the bubbles. When the bubbling stops, I remove the tree and set it on a tray to drain (or the sideboard of the kitchen sink). After the pot has drained for a few minutes, I return the pot to its spot where I am growing the tree.

Outdoors, I'll use the garden hose, and repeatedly spray the tree until I see water running out from under the trees. Always water with sufficient quantities of water that the entire volume of the pot is flooded, then allow to drain. Dry pockets can cause problems. Flooding your trees with water, then allowing to drain is the better technique.

So indoors I either take all my trees to the sink, and water there, or I dunk them in a bucket or pan of water, to at least as deep as the rim of the pot.
There is no good way to just dribble water into a pot indoors. Bonsai soils do not wick moisture around like peat based houseplant soils. You must flood all the soil in the pot. Then let it drain.

When to water:
First, the best measuring instruments to determine how wet or dry your soil or potting media is, are the human finger and your eyes. No electronic gadget will work as well in a home setting as using your finger and your eyes. Dig your finger into the potting media at least as deep as the base of your fingernail or first knuckle. If the media feels cool and moist, then no need to water. If the media feels dry, with no noticeable temperature change, then you should have watered a few hours to a day earlier. Goal is to thoroughly drench your plant to get all the media in the pot thoroughly wet. Then you want the tree to dry to the "Just Barely Moist" stage. Bone dry is too dry except for cactus. Barely moist is tricky to learn, the old standard was about the moisture level of pipe tobacco, but hardly anyone smokes a pipe anymore. Key is, most trees will show signs of wilting as they get past the point of ideal dryness. This is where the eyeballs come in, you can with time see whether a tree needs water just by how the leaves are being held. Let a tree dry to wilting, you will have damaged the fine tender roots. But just before wilting there is a slight angle change in the presentation of the leaves. Once you learn to see that, you can tell from across the room or across the yard whether your tree is in urgent need of water.

Really successful bonsai growers do not put their trees on a watering schedule. Key is to check your trees daily, or twice a day especially in hot weather. Temperatures vary daily, humidity varies, cloud cover varies: therefore the time between watering will vary. If you put your trees on a rigid schedule, you are guaranteed to kill them. Check trees to see if they need water once or twice a day, ONLY water if they need to be watered. It might be as often as twice a day in hot, dry, sunny weather. It might be once every week in cool weather. In winter, while fully dormant, I have had trees go 2 months without needing water when stored in my underground well house.

Even trees grown indoors on the windowsill will have variation in how frequently they need water depending on humidity and temperature. A pattern will emerge, and you may be able to predict when you trees will need water. But you need to check frequently, at least daily until you really know your trees.

So check daily, and water only when needed. Frequency of watering will change with the weather.

Water quality:
Water quality is a complex topic. In general, municipal water from most cities is adequate for bonsai. Individual wells usually are good. USDA generally says water with 600 ppm or less total dissolved solids is adequate for most general nursery and greenhouse operations without additional treatment. (specialty plant crops might be exceptions).

Fertilizer:
There are many ways to fertilize. If you are using a liquid fertilizer, or a fertilizer that you dissolve in a liquid, follow the product label directions to make up your solution. Remember, fertilizing is NOT WATERING. Best practice is to water your trees immediately before applying liquid fertilizer solution. Let your trees drain, then apply liquid fertilizer solution, allow to drain again. Then return tree to growing area.

NEVER water a dry to wilting tree with a fertilizer solution. Always water with clear water first. Then you can water with fertilizer after the tree has recovered from the drought stress. Some growers use "Continuous Feeding" programs. In general continuous feeding can lead to problems. Water with clear water at least once every 3rd or 4th watering if you are doing "Continuous Feeding". Doing so will flush out any accumulations of nutrient imbalances and greatly improve the results from the "continuous feeding" program.

So this is a brief class in watering. I've barely touched on the nuances, but key is to wet all the media in the pot when you do water.
I would agree with everything Leo said here, except the "dunk" method of watering. It is not a really great thing to do all the time. It completely saturates the root mass, but with commercially-made bonsai, that can be a HUGE problem. The soil that is typically used in commercial, mass produced bonsai is too heavy and dense for continued use. Typically, the trees sold commercially are overwatered to death because of the soil and constant saturation of the roots--usually because of the "dunk your tree" advice.

The interior of the root mass remains constantly soggy with this method. The outer roots may appear only damp, or even dry, while three inches inside the roots under the tree is basically a wet soggy sponge. That kills roots. If you're watering water the soil from above, until water drains freely from the drainage holes.

When to water is a very difficult thing to learn for bonsai. It can take years. The ideal time to water is not on a set schedule (like "twice a day," or "exactly when I get home from work," etc.) The best time to water is when the plant NEEDS water. That can be a very hard thing to learn, but generally, a tree needs water when the top of the soil is dry or dryish a half inch down.-however that's only an educated guess. Watering can depend on local humidity, size of the pot (small pots have smaller water reserves) air circulation, season, sun exposure. A sunny hot dry day outside in summer and your tree may need water as much as three times a day. A cloudy September day with temps in the upper 60s and the tree won't need any...

BTW, serissa is mass producers' favorite species since the white flowers sell the tree. It is a very challenging species for beginners since it is finicky about fluctuating soil moisture and temperatures. Some varieties are near winter hardy, while others are more tropical. If you're keeping it indoors all the time, you're complicating things even more, as extremely low light and humidity levels take their toll, as does stagnant air. A summertime "vacation" is a good thing to provide "indoor" bonsai, keeping them outside until the danger of frost has passed in the spring, until frost returns in the autumn. That summer growing season allows the plant to build up strength to weather indoor conditions for the winter.
 
Watering is a difficult topic.

How to water:
When you water, you flood the pot with water. Every square inch of surface should be flooded with water in the process. Water quantity should be enough that water runs out the drainage holes of the pot. You should always water with enough volume of water that water runs out the drainage holes, not just dribble a drop or two.. I often use a bucket of water, and dunk the tree in the water (gently of course) and hold it just barely submerged and watch the bubbles. When the bubbling stops, I remove the tree and set it on a tray to drain (or the sideboard of the kitchen sink). After the pot has drained for a few minutes, I return the pot to its spot where I am growing the tree.

Outdoors, I'll use the garden hose, and repeatedly spray the tree until I see water running out from under the trees. Always water with sufficient quantities of water that the entire volume of the pot is flooded, then allow to drain. Dry pockets can cause problems. Flooding your trees with water, then allowing to drain is the better technique.

So indoors I either take all my trees to the sink, and water there, or I dunk them in a bucket or pan of water, to at least as deep as the rim of the pot.
There is no good way to just dribble water into a pot indoors. Bonsai soils do not wick moisture around like peat based houseplant soils. You must flood all the soil in the pot. Then let it drain.

When to water:
First, the best measuring instruments to determine how wet or dry your soil or potting media is, are the human finger and your eyes. No electronic gadget will work as well in a home setting as using your finger and your eyes. Dig your finger into the potting media at least as deep as the base of your fingernail or first knuckle. If the media feels cool and moist, then no need to water. If the media feels dry, with no noticeable temperature change, then you should have watered a few hours to a day earlier. Goal is to thoroughly drench your plant to get all the media in the pot thoroughly wet. Then you want the tree to dry to the "Just Barely Moist" stage. Bone dry is too dry except for cactus. Barely moist is tricky to learn, the old standard was about the moisture level of pipe tobacco, but hardly anyone smokes a pipe anymore. Key is, most trees will show signs of wilting as they get past the point of ideal dryness. This is where the eyeballs come in, you can with time see whether a tree needs water just by how the leaves are being held. Let a tree dry to wilting, you will have damaged the fine tender roots. But just before wilting there is a slight angle change in the presentation of the leaves. Once you learn to see that, you can tell from across the room or across the yard whether your tree is in urgent need of water.

Really successful bonsai growers do not put their trees on a watering schedule. Key is to check your trees daily, or twice a day especially in hot weather. Temperatures vary daily, humidity varies, cloud cover varies: therefore the time between watering will vary. If you put your trees on a rigid schedule, you are guaranteed to kill them. Check trees to see if they need water once or twice a day, ONLY water if they need to be watered. It might be as often as twice a day in hot, dry, sunny weather. It might be once every week in cool weather. In winter, while fully dormant, I have had trees go 2 months without needing water when stored in my underground well house.

Even trees grown indoors on the windowsill will have variation in how frequently they need water depending on humidity and temperature. A pattern will emerge, and you may be able to predict when you trees will need water. But you need to check frequently, at least daily until you really know your trees.

So check daily, and water only when needed. Frequency of watering will change with the weather.

Water quality:
Water quality is a complex topic. In general, municipal water from most cities is adequate for bonsai. Individual wells usually are good. USDA generally says water with 600 ppm or less total dissolved solids is adequate for most general nursery and greenhouse operations without additional treatment. (specialty plant crops might be exceptions).

Fertilizer:
There are many ways to fertilize. If you are using a liquid fertilizer, or a fertilizer that you dissolve in a liquid, follow the product label directions to make up your solution. Remember, fertilizing is NOT WATERING. Best practice is to water your trees immediately before applying liquid fertilizer solution. Let your trees drain, then apply liquid fertilizer solution, allow to drain again. Then return tree to growing area.

NEVER water a dry to wilting tree with a fertilizer solution. Always water with clear water first. Then you can water with fertilizer after the tree has recovered from the drought stress. Some growers use "Continuous Feeding" programs. In general continuous feeding can lead to problems. Water with clear water at least once every 3rd or 4th watering if you are doing "Continuous Feeding". Doing so will flush out any accumulations of nutrient imbalances and greatly improve the results from the "continuous feeding" program.

So this is a brief class in watering. I've barely touched on the nuances, but key is to wet all the media in the pot when you do water.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. When you submerge the Bonsai in water, how often do you do that? Once a week, Once every two?
 
Thanks for the detailed explanation. When you submerge the Bonsai in water, how often do you do that? Once a week, Once every two?
Never. Well maybe once or twice in a couple of decades, possibly at repotting time, or when the tree has dried out completely, or if it's a bald cypress.

Bald cypress grow in standing water, so keeping them in it isn't problem.

At repotting it can help soil settle in around roots.

When a tree has dried out completely and is showing wilted leaves, submerging it for an hour or so can help bring it back.

As for regular watering, never.
 
Never. Well maybe once or twice in a couple of decades, possibly at repotting time, or when the tree has dried out completely, or if it's a bald cypress.

Bald cypress grow in standing water, so keeping them in it isn't problem.

At repotting it can help soil settle in around roots.

When a tree has dried out completely and is showing wilted leaves, submerging it for an hour or so can help bring it back.

As for regular watering, never.
thank you for the recommendations, this really helps. I will submerge it once and then follow the recommendations that were given in this chat.
 
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