Non-Asian Species

[Gabler]

Are all the best species for bonsai from Asia? Do we use Asian species because they are better, or because they are traditional? Are there any non-Asian species that are better than their Asian counterparts?

Chinese elms have smaller leaves and more cultivars available than North American and European elms. Japanese black pine is the "king" of bonsai. Japanese maples and trident maples have smaller leaves and better ramification than North American and European Maples. It seems like all the best species are from Asia, but also it seems improbable that one continent would end up with all the best species for bonsai. What's the deal with that?

In your answer, please be sure to include any examples of non-Asian species which you believe are superior to their Asian counterparts, as well as an explanation of why you believe the non-Asian species is superior.

For extra credit, you may include photographs of non-Asian bonsai that rival their Asian counterparts.

 

[bluone23]

I’d say prunus spinosa
Nice flowers dark blue fruit in winter.



European Hawthorn
Also nice flowers and red fruit in the winter



Both trees by Harry Harrington.

To the list I would add european beech, carpinus, elm, field elm.

 

[Juanmi]

That though crossed my mind as well . I came to th conclusion that maybe Asian species are naturally smaller and are more desirable because of tradition, as you stated. We want to recreate what we see at the exhibitions.

But for exemple, in Spain they use a lot local species such Quercus Suber, Olea Europea Sylvestris and Juniperus Sabina.

Even the Pinus Sylvestris (Scots Pine) is often used as a bonsai.If my memory serves me well they call it 'European Red Pine' in Japan.

I'll also add a Salvia Rosmarinus picture that I saw in the last Bonsai expo in Paris.

So, in conclusion, there are no better or worse species based solely on the origin of the tree / plant, as long as the species are able to reduce the foliage and can take the root cuttings and trimming, and more important are suitable for the climate you live in. (That's a weird phrasing, but I hope it is understandable)

 

[dbonsaiw]

Are all the best species for bonsai from Asia? Do we use Asian species because they are better, or because they are traditional? Are there any non-Asian species that are better than their Asian counterparts?

Good questions. I am biased in favor of many of the Asian species, but hawthorn, English oak, ponderosa pine, bald cypress, Rocky Mountain juniper, are good candidates. There are also the non-Asian tropical species. Interesting to see how others rate some of these in comparison to their Asian counterparts.

I’ll also state the obvious that, as an Asian art, bonsai originated using the Asian species. So tradition plays a part in addition to how well these species bonsai.

 

[Juanmi]

I forgot about Fig trees (Ficus Carica), also used in Spain, but less that the other species.

 

[Kanorin]

They are also 100+ years ahead in selective breeding for bonsai traits in certain cultivars. For example, there is a range of leaf sizes for wild trident and japanese maples, but the ones propagated for bonsai have had many rounds of selection for desirable traits.

 

[DeepSouth]

There are some American deciduous species that I think have the potential to rise to the level of some of the Asian species, which have been selectively breed for hundreds of years.

One of them is Carpinus caroliniana, the American Hornbeam. It adapts very well to container life, leaves reduce well, root work is easy, has nice muscular trunks, and puts on a nice fall display. From working with it, I can't say that it has any real disadvantages as bonsai.

 

[TrueSandwich]

As others have mentioned, Asian species have been cultivated specifically for Bonsai and Penjing for centuries. People have also had centuries to develop techniques for how to best grow/develop those species as bonsai. Using non-asian species will require some trial and error over time, but there are many species that are great. I'm in Central California and the Coast Live oak and Cork Oak are some of my personal favorites. Oaks in general are not common in Asian bonsai as the one species they have has massive leaves. Coast Live Oak and Cork Oak are much better for bonsai in all aspects imo. Monterey Cypress is also great. It has foliage similar to Juniper, but it has really nice bark and will develop 'muscling' over time. To name off a couple more, Bald Cypress and Redwoods are great for bonsai and don't have Asian counterparts to compare to.

Pictures are in order of Species Mentioned

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Traditionally these Asian countries seem to have more interest in trees and shrubs, whereas the western world has mostly focused on flowers and herbaceous plants.
A curious difference if you ask me.

But when you look at how many different roses, tulips and cultivated garden flower varieties you can find here, the numbers don't lie.
That same kite flies for Asia when it comes to shrubs and tree cultivars, they outnumber at least Europe by a lot.

I think it's a matter of industry and history too. But also philosophical/cultural: Fast results versus years of patience.

 

[coachspinks]

As others have mentioned, Asian species have been cultivated specifically for Bonsai and Penjing for centuries. People have also had centuries to develop techniques for how to best grow/develop those species as bonsai. Using non-asian species will require some trial and error over time, but there are many species that are great. I'm in Central California and the Coast Live oak and Cork Oak are some of my personal favorites. Oaks in general are not common in Asian bonsai as the one species they have has massive leaves. Coast Live Oak and Cork Oak are much better for bonsai in all aspects imo. Monterey Cypress is also great. It has foliage similar to Juniper, but it has really nice bark and will develop 'muscling' over time. To name off a couple more, Bald Cypress and Redwoods are great for bonsai and don't have Asian counterparts to compare to.

Pictures are in order of Species Mentioned

I was just about to post about the Bald Cypress. I would include any of the native junipers of the western US.

 

[Juanmi]

I would include any of the native junipers of the western US.

Now that I think of it, didn't John Naka use some California Junipers?

 

[coachspinks]

Yes he did. Here is a link to an article of one of them.

 

[Wood]

Now that I think of it, didn't John Naka use some California Junipers?

Yes, definitely. Harry Hirao also collected a lot of notable early California junipers. My impression was that it was mostly about finding the best material available to them (which is why Foemina junipers were heavily used) than whether or not California junipers are suited to bonsai techniques. I know that the species struggles with legginess and floppy foliage a bit on the east coast. I wonder if it's just not hot and dry enough for them out here

 

[Wood]

There are some American deciduous species that I think have the potential to rise to the level of some of the Asian species, which have been selectively breed for hundreds of years.

One of them is Carpinus caroliniana, the American Hornbeam. It adapts very well to container life, leaves reduce well, root work is easy, has nice muscular trunks, and puts on a nice fall display. From working with it, I can't say that it has any real disadvantages as bonsai.

I love American hornbeam and have more than a few myself, but healing scars is one of the downsides of them. You've got to be very careful about building a trunk with them. Massive chops from collected trees are always pretty hard to heal over

 

[Wood]

Gary Chapman was selling some collected chalk maples (Acer leucoderme) that seemed to have a lot of potential. It was a species I'd never heard of before. They'd been in shohin-sized training pots for a year or two, and all had tiny internodes. Gary said they got vigorous growth much like a trident. Seemed like a very promising species

 

[DeepSouth]

I love American hornbeam and have more than a few myself, but healing scars is one of the downsides of them. You've got to be very careful about building a trunk with them. Massive chops from collected trees are always pretty hard to heal over

I have heard this from others, but haven't experienced it myself. Here in zone 9a, our growing season is so long, that perhaps it is less of an issue.

 

[Gabler]

as long as the species are able to reduce the foliage and can take the root cuttings and trimming

That's what I'm asking about. You had a good way of phrasing it. It seems like more Asian species are well suited to bonsai. The stuff that's native to my region reduces poorly and balks at root work, at least compared to Chinese elm, zelkova, etc. Certainly there are good trees native to any region, but are there any trees better than the stuff that originates from Asia?

"Oak" was a good answer to that question. European and North American oaks are much better for bonsai than Asian oaks. Selective breeding is a good explanation for why there are still more options overall in Asia, notwithstanding the oak advantage.

Others rejected the premise of the question, which is fair. It is possible that bonsai developed to take advantage of the characteristics of Asian trees, rather than Asian trees coincidentally fitting the standards of bonsai.

 

[Juanmi]

It is possible that bonsai developed to take advantage of the characteristics of Asian trees, rather than Asian trees coincidentally fitting the standards of bonsai.

Maybe they're blessed, IDK it looks like a lot of coincidences.

I was thinking about the Juniperus Sabina, I wouldn't say it is better than an Itoigawa for exemple, but maybe equally good. Even though, it's a well known practice to graft the Japanese variety on the European one because of the color of the foliage, but I would consider this more a matter of taste.

Also some Asian varieties sometimes have some distinctive features, like the Nejikan Pomegranate. The regular one works fine for bonsai, but it won't have the same twisted trunks, and it might be slightly larger. Same with Azaleas or Persimmons.

And what about the Callicarpa? I have both, Callicarpa Bodineri and Callicarpa Japonica, but I can't really tell the difference.

Maybe Larches are a good pretender. If I'm not mistaken Larix Decidua are more resistant than Larix Kaempferi

 

[ShimpakuBonsai]

Based on the work and videos of Mauro Stemberger I think the Scots pine and the Sabina juniper are the best species for bonsai we have in Europe.

 

[Juanmi]

Also I think Yews are suitable for bonsai. At this moment I'm just throwing ideas here.

Again, I wouldn't say the European (Taxus Baccata) or American (Taxus Canadensis) varieties are better than the Japanese one (Taxus Cuspidata), but equally good maybe. I'm not sure about their particularities.