Newbie - hi👋

Bonsailee

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Hi all,

New to bonsai and new to this forum so just a hi from me….

Just purchased my first ever bonsai, 8 year old Chinese privet from greenwood bonsai studios and very much excited about the years to come of caring and loving for Dorothy (after my late grandmother)

My main objective is to thicken the trunk and slightly adjust and direction angles of the branches. She already has good shape but I’d like to add a bit of me to her.
I suppose at this point my main question is, am I able to train/shape (not sure of all the correct terms yet) the trunk at this stage?
Also I have a stub at the top of the tree that looks like deadwood possibly (pictured) should this just been left at this stage or does it need attention?

Thankfull to find this forum and looking forward to indulging in all the advise and tips etc.

Bonsailee
 

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  1. Get that tree outdoors. Growing a privet indoors will slowly weaken and eventually kill it.
  2. If you want a thicker trunk, move the tree to a bigger pot next spring and give it lots of fertilizer, so it grows as fast as possible. Read up on the use of sacrifice branches.
  3. You'll probably want to remove that stub at the top, but it isn't hurting anything for now. Now is a good time to remove it, except ...
  4. The leaves look chlorotic. Get that tree some fertilizer. Once it's looking darker green and growing quickly, it's time to make large chops.
 
  1. Get that tree outdoors. Growing a privet indoors will slowly weaken and eventually kill it.
  2. If you want a thicker trunk, move the tree to a bigger pot next spring and give it lots of fertilizer, so it grows as fast as possible. Read up on the use of sacrifice branches.
  3. You'll probably want to remove that stub at the top, but it isn't hurting anything for now. Now is a good time to remove it, except ...
  4. The leaves look chlorotic. Get that tree some fertilizer. Once it's looking darker green and growing quickly, it's time to make large chops.
Digesting this one 👍
 
Welcome! You got this tree from a great source. Greenwood Bonsai has been around a very long time. Corin Tomlinson is well known, even here in the states. His dad Harry's book "The Complete Book of Bonsai" published back in 1990 was an entry point for me back then to do bonsai.

You made a good choice in starter material as well. Privet are very hardy and forgiving as bonsai, but they (and most other bonsai species-unless they're tropical species) don't do very well indoors. They weaken and eventually die. Keeping any bonsai inside requires know how and complicates care dramatically, particularly if you're a beginner. It adds another layer on an already steep learning curve. Best to get it outside (if possible) into a partially sunny spot (four hours morning sun, afternoon shade is optimal.

Your first step in learning bonsai is not design. It's keeping the tree alive and healthy. That requires getting the knack of watering, which is THE hardest part of bonsai. Watering is a skill you have to learn. It's done only when the TREE needs it, not when you can get around to it or when you schedule it. Bonsai are quite like dogs and cats. They need what they need, when they need it. Dogs and cats can be more forgiving in their needs and your schedule, but your tree isn't, unfortunately.

You have to learn when the soil is likely to dry (it can vary day to day). Some days when it's humid and still, the tree won't need any water. Some days that are dry and windy and depending on the soil volume and foliage load, your tree may need watering two or even three times. This can be determined a couple of easy ways--first is the chopstick method. Stick a wooden chopstick down into the soil from above half way between the tree's trunk and the edge of the pot so the tip is half way between the soil surface and the bottom of the pot. Leave it there. When you want to check soil moisture, pull the stick up and look at the end. It should show moisture at the end inch or so. If it's wet, you don't need to water. If it's dryish--you need to water.

Another method is lifting the edge of the pot up to gauge weight--a well-watered pot weighs significantly more than a pot that needs water. The soil in the pot holds onto water and gradually gives it up over time. So, to begin, water your bonsai until water freely flows out of the drainage holes. Then lift one end of the pot up about an inch or three. Feel the weight? That's what a pot that doesn't need water feels like. Over the course of a day, lift the pot the same way a few times. It should feel lighter --it's a game of estimation at first. Over time, you will be able to gauge the weight of a full vs "needs water" pot easily. Along the way, notice the color of the soil surface--drying bonsai soil tends to be a lighter color than wet bonsai soil. That's another way to tell.

Thickening the trunk in this pot won't be easy--the principle of bonsai cultivation is that the pot restricts growth, which keeps the tree from growing rampantly. Once a bonsai subject is placed in a pot, generally the desired trunk diameter has been reached (in the ground, or a substantially larger container) and the development of branching is begun. I doubt you will be able to thicken this trunk much more in this container. It will, of course continue to thicken (trees add a layer of cambium under their bark every year), but it won't be all that noticeable for quite some time. If you want faster thickening you can put it into a larger growing container, or plant it out in the ground and allow it to grow rampantly without trimming for a while (three years at the minimum, any less time and you won't see much if any difference). This free growth means the tree will add substantial top growth, that growth will require larger pathways to exchange nutrients with the roots--expanding the trunk. However that unrestricted growth means you lose the finer ramification, smaller branches and smaller leaves that are the result of pruning, pinching , etc. All that has to be restored when the trunk is again dug up and put in a smaller container once the desired trunk diameter is reached.

If you've noticed--Bonsai is a practice of trade offs.

The tree you have has already undergone all of this and has been repeatedly shaped with hard pruning and pinching of new growth. It will revert to larger leaves and coarser branching if you DON'T keep shaping it this summer. You can further develop the branching. The lowest branch is a new one--straight as an arrow with foliage at the end. Branching on deciduous trees is developed through series of hard prunings and grow-out periods. THere are a few ways to do it--wire can be an option, but be warned, wiring deciduous branching can break it easily. These finer details are explained in many publications and online (here included--look up "hard pruning" "clip and grow" to get started).
 
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Rockm is correct about watering, but if you're like me, and you're stuck at work all day, you can get away with slightly overwatering your trees to ensure they can go all day without drying out completely.

My only option is to water on a schedule. I water every morning. That means some of my trees are still a little damp in the morning when it wasn't hot and sunny the day prior. In cooler weather, I can get away with watering every other day. When the weather is in between, I have no option but to overwater.

Thus, I use granular systemic fungicide as a prophylactic to protect against the biggest danger from overwatering: fungal infections. Is it ideal? Heck, no. Does work most of the time? Yeah, pretty much.
 
Welcome! You got this tree from a great source. Greenwood Bonsai has been around a very long time. Corin Tomlinson is well known, even here in the states. His dad Harry's book "The Complete Book of Bonsai" published back in 1990 was an entry point for me back then to do bonsai.

You made a good choice in starter material as well. Privet are very hardy and forgiving as bonsai, but they (and most other bonsai species-unless they're tropical species) don't do very well indoors. They weaken and eventually die. Keeping any bonsai inside requires know how and complicates care dramatically, particularly if you're a beginner. It adds another layer on an already steep learning curve. Best to get it outside (if possible) into a partially sunny spot (four hours morning sun, afternoon shade is optimal.

Your first step in learning bonsai is not design. It's keeping the tree alive and healthy. That requires getting the knack of watering, which is THE hardest part of bonsai. Watering is a skill you have to learn. It's done only when the TREE needs it, not when you can get around to it or when you schedule it. Bonsai are quite like dogs and cats. They need what they need, when they need it. Dogs and cats can be more forgiving in their needs and your schedule, but your tree isn't, unfortunately.

You have to learn when the soil is likely to dry (it can vary day to day). Some days when it's humid and still, the tree won't need any water. Some days that are dry and windy and depending on the soil volume and foliage load, your tree may need watering two or even three times. This can be determined a couple of easy ways--first is the chopstick method. Stick a wooden chopstick down into the soil from above half way between the tree's trunk and the edge of the pot so the tip is half way between the soil surface and the bottom of the pot. Leave it there. When you want to check soil moisture, pull the stick up and look at the end. It should show moisture at the end inch or so. If it's wet, you don't need to water. If it's dryish--you need to water.

Another method is lifting the edge of the pot up to gauge weight--a well-watered pot weighs significantly more than a pot that needs water. The soil in the pot holds onto water and gradually gives it up over time. So, to begin, water your bonsai until water freely flows out of the drainage holes. Then lift one end of the pot up about an inch or three. Feel the weight? That's what a pot that doesn't need water feels like. Over the course of a day, lift the pot the same way a few times. It should feel lighter --it's a game of estimation at first. Over time, you will be able to gauge the weight of a full vs "needs water" pot easily. Along the way, notice the color of the soil surface--drying bonsai soil tends to be a lighter color than wet bonsai soil. That's another way to tell.

Thickening the trunk in this pot won't be easy--the principle of bonsai cultivation is that the pot restricts growth, which keeps the tree from growing rampantly. Once a bonsai subject is placed in a pot, generally the desired trunk diameter has been reached (in the ground, or a substantially larger container) and the development of branching is begun. I doubt you will be able to thicken this trunk much more in this container. It will, of course continue to thicken (trees add a layer of cambium under their bark every year), but it won't be all that noticeable for quite some time. If you want faster thickening you can put it into a larger growing container, or plant it out in the ground and allow it to grow rampantly without trimming for a while (three years at the minimum, any less time and you won't see much if any difference). This free growth means the tree will add substantial top growth, that growth will require larger pathways to exchange nutrients with the roots--expanding the trunk. However that unrestricted growth means you lose the finer ramification, smaller branches and smaller leaves that are the result of pruning, pinching , etc. All that has to be restored when the trunk is again dug up and put in a smaller container once the desired trunk diameter is reached.

If you've noticed--Bonsai is a practice of trade offs.

The tree you have has already undergone all of this and has been repeatedly shaped with hard pruning and pinching of new growth. It will revert to larger leaves and coarser branching if you DON'T keep shaping it this summer. You can further develop the branching. The lowest branch is a new one--straight as an arrow with foliage at the end. Branching on deciduous trees is developed through series of hard prunings and grow-out periods. THere are a few ways to do it--wire can be an option, but be warned, wiring deciduous branching can break it easily. These finer details are explained in many publications and online (here included--look up "hard pruning" "clip and grow" to get started).
Hey Rockm,

Wow really appreciate you taking the time and effort to write all that up for me. Very nice of you.

It was only a week ago I decided to take the plunge and take on this new hobby, after a lot of searching and reviews on line I decided to go with greenwood and so glad I did. Such nice people, great customer care which is a winner for me. Obviously the products speak for themselves.

Unfortunately I live in the rat race of London and no garden so outside is not an option for me, she will have to soak up the sun from inside window ledge.

Really appreciate the chop stick method for watering, will get one in the pot tomorrow and go from there as I do understand this is one of the most important things I need to get right first of all.

With regards to thickening the trunk / shaping, what you said has made complete sense to me now. Basically that’s the ground work (already done on mine) I was just jumping the gun a bit and got excited about that side of things but now realise main focus is watering and pruning, I shall now as advised look up “hard pruning”

Once again thanks for putting it into understandable terms for me, really helped 🙌🏽
Rockm is correct about watering, but if you're like me, and you're stuck at work all day, you can get away with slightly overwatering your trees to ensure they can go all day without drying out completely.

My only option is to water on a schedule. I water every morning. That means some of my trees are still a little damp in the morning when it wasn't hot and sunny the day prior. In cooler weather, I can get away with watering every other day. When the weather is in between, I have no option but to overwater.

Thus, I use granular systemic fungicide as a prophylactic to protect against the biggest danger from overwatering: fungal infections. Is it ideal? Heck, no. Does work most of the time? Yeah, pretty much.
I work from home most of time so can keep a greedy eye on her thank god.
Thank you.
 
Hey Rockm,

Wow really appreciate you taking the time and effort to write all that up for me. Very nice of you.

It was only a week ago I decided to take the plunge and take on this new hobby, after a lot of searching and reviews on line I decided to go with greenwood and so glad I did. Such nice people, great customer care which is a winner for me. Obviously the products speak for themselves.

Unfortunately I live in the rat race of London and no garden so outside is not an option for me, she will have to soak up the sun from inside window ledge.

Really appreciate the chop stick method for watering, will get one in the pot tomorrow and go from there as I do understand this is one of the most important things I need to get right first of all.

With regards to thickening the trunk / shaping, what you said has made complete sense to me now. Basically that’s the ground work (already done on mine) I was just jumping the gun a bit and got excited about that side of things but now realise main focus is watering and pruning, I shall now as advised look up “hard pruning”

Once again thanks for putting it into understandable terms for me, really helped 🙌🏽

I work from home most of time so can keep a greedy eye on her thank god.
Thank you.
If you don't have a space outside, you will have more success with a tropical species, ficus in particular, indoors. The more the merrier. Most bonsai folks have more than one tree, A LOT more 😁

"Hard pruning" means pruning back to old wood, as opposed to just pinching out new soft growth. Pruning back into older wood stimulates hormones behind the cut to open new buds (called resting buds which are present on the branch but not really visible in most cases) and grow new branch shoots.
 
Your plant choice is excellent and forgiving .... for an out doors plant. Getting a ficus is a great idea. Trying to keep your privet inside is not. Its not about breaking rules as in picking a color or material for a painting or sculpture. Bonsai rules regarding design are broken all the time. But breaking rules regarding the physiology of a living organism is never a good idea and seldom successful.
If you are seriously looking to do this, you need to talk with people in your area. I have been keeping hundreds of plants for dozens of years and while I am far from expert, I do understand plants.
I sincerely wish you the best.
 
I think one thing that has not been mentioned for your particular tree is that it’s potted quite high up.
There’s a big mound of soil around the trunk, which will make watering more difficult as it will be rolling off the pot before having a chance of entering the soil.
When you repot this tree (which it is not the time for, right now), consider planting it lower or in a deeper container.

Wish you good luck with your newly acquired hobby!
 
If you don't have a space outside, you will have more success with a tropical species, ficus in particular, indoors. The more the merrier. Most bonsai folks have more than one tree, A LOT more 😁

"Hard pruning" means pruning back to old wood, as opposed to just pinching out new soft growth. Pruning back into older wood stimulates hormones behind the cut to open new buds (called resting buds which are present on the branch but not really visible in most cases) and grow new branch shoots.
Thanks mate. I’ve been looking at more trees already lol. I really do like the look of the acre palmatum and would love to do some sort of cherry blossom as it’s my wife’s fav tree.
 
Thanks mate. I’ve been looking at more trees already lol. I really do like the look of the acre palmatum and would love to do some sort of cherry blossom as it’s my wife’s fav tree.
Proper deciduous trees like maples and cherries have to be outside. Looks like you will need to look for an accessible outdoors space. It is about so much more than light.
A few books will help you. Anything worth doing is worth reading about.
 
Thanks mate. I’ve been looking at more trees already lol. I really do like the look of the acre palmatum and would love to do some sort of cherry blossom as it’s my wife’s fav tree.
Unfortunately, both the maple and cherry will die inside and both rather quickly. Along with the high light, humidity and air circulation requirements, Both maples and cherries require winter dormancy--which requires them to be kept below 35 F (1.6 C) for months. Dormancy in the autumn is also only partially driven by temperatures. Shortening daylengths are more important, which they won't experience indoors.

If you want to bonsai and don't have access to an outdoor space, you're going to have to use mostly tropical species, ficus, schefflera, carmona (fukien tea). Temperate zone species, including deciduous and conifers can't really be kept indoors without substantial supplemental lighting, fans, humidifiers etc.
 
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