New shohin kaede

[Alex DeRuiter]

Pardon the blurry picture. I don't have a smart phone. ;-p

Got this tree from a good friend on the cheap. Super nice pot, too, but I forget the potter's name at the moment. Just repotted it and adjusted the front slightly.

There are some unsightly things about the tree -- mainly the right, back, and left branches (closest the base). They're all very straight and have the Pom Pom look, but this can be remedied very easily. I did a very small amount of pruning to get a better idea of what I'm going for and to push growth elsewhere. This one became one of my favorite trees very quickly.

 

[davetree]

Nice tree, how big is it ? Can I ask what you paid ? How do you plan on designing the apex ? Nice looking base in this one.

 

[Poink88]

Very nice, congrats!

You might want to address that bulge from the old chop at the right ASAP. I would also look hard at the straight main branches now....I feel it needs re-building. JMHO.

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Dave, sent ya a PM

Dario, I totally agree -- at least about correcting it, but not the timing. Only reason I want to wait is that there's a large chop scar in the back that's been healing over very nicely and it's about half-way now. I think if I wait that out and then create a new scar when I take that bulge out, it should heal more efficiently. At least this is my theory, so if you can disprove it or convince me otherwise, then so be it. I'll try to remain open-minded.

 

[Poink88]

There are things you know and see that I don't so proceed as you think is best. Mine is only an opinion based on the pic you posted.

That said, IF the bulge is the same as the one you mentioned that is healing halfway (I am not clear if there are 2 chops), the more reason to correct it now...unless you can correct it later w/o removing the newly rolled/healed bark.

Good luck!

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Looking back, I hope I didn't sound arrogant in my response. lol -- I really don't know too much about healing scars minus a few things I've learned from posts...but no hands-on experience. =)

Here's the thing: the rolling back is coming from the top, and the section of the scar that's still open is on the bottom, and that's where the bulge site is...so I might be able to correct it now. I'm going to see my friend (the one who sold this to me) and see what he thinks -- he's the man with a plan. I'll report back with his advice. ;-D

 

[Poink88]

Alex,

You didn't. No problem.

You should know me now...I want to avoid wasting time and letting a wound heal for years then having to go back later to trim a 1/2" wedge off is a big waste that I want to avoid IF possible. I hope you get your answer from your friend.

My approach is to cut back to the right place ASAP. The down side is if you changed your mind and wanted to carve...then you just limited your options down to uro. Happened to me a few times already.

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Makes sense to me. I'm all for saving time, too. But yeah, definitely don't want to carve or make any kind of deadwood on this -- want all nice, smooth, live bark.

I've heard of "slow technique" for healing wounds, but it doesn't really apply here. I'll put a link at the bottom -- it's pretty awesome.

I'll talk to the dudeman and get back to you -- give me a week-ish. ;-D

http://bonsaitonight.com/2012/10/16/ebiharas-maples/ - Towards the middle of the article

 

[MACH5]

Terrific little tree Alex! Great pick up!! This one has good potential and with the right technique and approach you should have yourself quite an excellent specimen in a few years time. Have fun!

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Thank you! I was admiring it for at least a full 30-45 minutes yesterday and became extremely excited about future plans for it.

Speaking of technique and approach, do you have any input on addressing that bulge and when?

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I was just thinking about the slow branch removal as a possible wound healing technique the other week. I was thinking more in terms of large landscaping trees because I always like to imagine where I would prune a full size tree if I were able to shrink it. It got me to thinking about how full size trees often resent the rot induced by a major reduction of the top and how this could be possibly overcome by allowing the branch to help heal it's own removal. I then dismissed the idea imagining a half cut branch dropping on someone's head midway through the winter.

 

[pwk5017]

great trunk. The bulge doesnt bother me one bit, but those branches do. I would look to rebuild all of them from scratch. Do that trunk and base justice with the right branching! Nice tree acquisition.

 

[MACH5]

In my view, I am unsure that there is any significant advantage to letting the wound heal before having to take out a portion of it again later on. I would do all my cutting and cleaning at this time, and let it all heal again for good. Now is a good time since it is Spring and trees are vigorous! Obviously, make sure your cut is neat and clean all around its edges and I would make sure to use a thin layer of cut paste over it.

Also if you happen to have a branch located near the wound, let some of it grow unchecked for a while to speed up a bit the healing process. Have fun!

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Thanks pwk -- I was thinking the same thing, or at least something similar. I can probably induce some backbudding close to the bases of those three branches and work from there. They're placed pretty well, just fugly and scarred at the moment.

Mach, you have a point. It seems to be pretty much the same point Dario was making, but I suppose it just took more than one person explaining it for me to justify my changing sides on how it should be approached...if that makes sense.

Yes, there's that back branch right at the base of the scar, so that should serve well to draw energy to expedite healing in that area.

Perhaps some pictures tonight. . . .

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

I then dismissed the idea imagining a half cut branch dropping on someone's head midway through the winter.

If anything, that should fuel your ambition to test this idea

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

So I went ahead and made a little project of this last night. Got out the knob and concave cutters, grafting knife and a little scorp that I'm really glad I purchased a year ago that I didn't think I'd really find use for.

Buuuut, I've got some disappointing news. As I was cleaning out that spot, I saw some rotted areas and thought I'd test them with the scorp to see how soft it was. There was a pretty good amount of rot around the part where the callus had not yet begun to form. I dug (not neurotically, but enough to test the site) and eventually found a spot where it just caved right through. Pictures at the bottom.

It goes through all the way to the bottom. I've never dealt with rot and so I don't know how to approach this. Will the rot continue if I do not clear the tree entirely of the rotting wood, or can I leave some and not have to worry?

There was also a hole formed that I've accepted will never heal over. However, if leaving the rot is an option, I might consider a seedling-bandage over the hole.

So yeah, that sucks. I'm a little sad about it, but such is life.

I ended up just sealing over the hole since there's nothing else I can really do right now. I think that if I do have to completely rid the tree of rot, I'll have to completely remove most of that back section. I'm not sure if the rotted hole goes all the way through to the bottom of the tree (which I do not remember seeing any sort of hole when I repotted the tree a couple days ago), or if I might be able to get away with clearing the top portion of that back section. I'd lose the back branch in that case, but I'd rather do this and insure the tree's health than save the convenience of an already-placed branch.

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

I'm hoping this is the worst case scenario:

Unlikely or unrealistic? I guess I'll find out next repotting season. I figure I can let this sit as it is for the year since it's been cleaned up a bit.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Kathy worked on a small trident with quite a few pruning scars last weekend, and she cleaned up the area, very smooth, made fresh sharp cuts around the edge, and covered everything with cut putty...lots of it, and extending out past the cambium layer.

I'd suggest a couple things that I've had good luck with:

1. Fill that hollow with epoxy putty until its flush with the surrounding wood. Gives the cambium something to grow over.

2. With big cuts like that, it's crucial to keep the area damp so the cambium keeps growing. Take a piece of towel fold it until it's the size of the cut, and tie it to the cut with a few pieces of raffia. Keep it wet and the scar will roll much faster. Another tip from Kathy Shaner...somewhere I have a photo...

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Howdy Brian,

1. That putty idea is exactly what I was thinking of as a way to heal over the hole. I know, however, that there's still rotting wood in that hole. Will it continue to rot, or should it be okay as long as it remains sealed off from the outside environment? I feel like if I just fill it with putty and cover it, it will just continue rotting and eventually kill the tree -- especially since it's so close to the roots.

2. You are the man for that! I remember hearing something about tightly covering a big chop scar to attain a flat healing site, but I had no clue it helped if it was damp. When you say towel, do you mean like paper towel, or should I use fabric?

I'm really starting to consider attempting to completely carve out the rotted area...but I'm so afraid that it goes all the way through the tree. What do you think?

 

[davetree]

You need to get the rotten wood out of there or you will just end up with another hole in the tree. You should be able to scrape out the rotten stuff with a sharp knife.