New Chinese Elm beginner

[BoB_Jr]

Just recently got a Chinese Elm from Eastern leaf. I know little about bonsai and this is only my second tree so I am just looking for some help. As I said I just got the tree and it was shipped from California so probably spent 7 to 10 days in a box being shipped. I assume and hope that is the cause for some leaves falling off and yellowing leaves. I was also wondering I live in Arizona where it gets very hot and hoped that I could keep it inside by a bright window. I also started to notice a white coating on the leaves most of the leaves with the coating were dead or dying. Any advice or information would be greatly appreciated Thanks!

 

[Shibui]

Yellowing leaves can be from a number of reasons.
Stress from shipping is one possible reason.
Chinese elms are semi-deciduous. It is probably the correct time for it to be turning yellow and dropping leaves in Az.
Lack of light is another reason for leaves turning yellow.

Chinese elms are sometimes promoted as indoor bonsai. The vast majority of people who try that end up disappointed by dead and dying indoor Chinese elms. Mot sites indoors are way too dark for most trees even though we find light levels comfortable, there's not enough of the right spectrum for trees. Even in Az I suspect it will do much better outdoors but you will need to learn how to water properly and provide adequate protection from very hot summer conditions.

White coating on leaves could be a number of different issues. A good, clear close up shot might help narrow the possibilities.
1. hard water deposit - minerals from the water stay on the leaves after the water evaporates. Will usually also appear on the soil, exposed roots and rim of the pot. Worse when we mist the leaves regularly in dry weather. Worse where water is heavily mineralised. Worse when the tree is not watered from above regularly.
2. mildews - fungal infections that grow on leaves. Especially where foliage is regularly wet.
3. Some sucking pests can have white outer covering.
Some diagnostic features: can the white coating be removed easily with a fingernail? Can it be scrubbed off with something like a toothbrush and water? (let the leaf dry as some white coatings are transparent when wet)

 

[WNC Bonsai]

I see a potential problem developing for you. The top of the tree has a number of branches packed in very tightly. This could lead to thickening of the trunk in that area and cause inverse taper there. Assuming the tree survives your AZ winter you’ll likely want to thin out the apex a bit. BTW cuttings root fairly easily so if you do thin the top there is an opportunity to create more new Chinese elms. I started with one and now have 6 last count.

 

[BrightsideB]

I think it would be good to get it outside in some sun. But putting it directly in direct sun after it’s been in low light and the dark for weeks would probably lead to leaf burn. So outside in the shade for a week would be good.

I’ve heard people bringing their Chinese elms inside for a day or two on occasion but they won’t live well indoors constantly. They are a good tree to learn with. They can handle more than most other deciduous.

Also add your climate zone and general area so people can help you better.

@WNC Bonsai why would it surviving a AZ winter be in question.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

I think it would be good to get it outside in some sun. But putting it directly in direct sun after it’s been in low light and the dark for weeks would probably lead to leaf burn. So outside in the shade for a week would be good.

I’ve heard people bringing their Chinese elms inside for a day or two on occasion but they won’t live well indoors constantly. They are a good tree to learn with. They can handle more than most other deciduous.

Also add your climate zone and general area so people can help you better.

@WNC Bonsai why would it surviving a AZ winter be in question.

See Shibu’s comments above.

 

[BoB_Jr]

I see a potential problem developing for you. The top of the tree has a number of branches packed in very tightly. This could lead to thickening of the trunk in that area and cause inverse taper there. Assuming the tree survives your AZ winter you’ll likely want to thin out the apex a bit. BTW cuttings root fairly easily so if you do thin the top there is an opportunity to create more new Chinese elms. I started with one and now have 6 last count.

Yellowing leaves can be from a number of reasons.
Stress from shipping is one possible reason.
Chinese elms are semi-deciduous. It is probably the correct time for it to be turning yellow and dropping leaves in Az.
Lack of light is another reason for leaves turning yellow.

Chinese elms are sometimes promoted as indoor bonsai. The vast majority of people who try that end up disappointed by dead and dying indoor Chinese elms. Mot sites indoors are way too dark for most trees even though we find light levels comfortable, there's not enough of the right spectrum for trees. Even in Az I suspect it will do much better outdoors but you will need to learn how to water properly and provide adequate protection from very hot summer conditions.

White coating on leaves could be a number of different issues. A good, clear close up shot might help narrow the possibilities.
1. hard water deposit - minerals from the water stay on the leaves after the water evaporates. Will usually also appear on the soil, exposed roots and rim of the pot. Worse when we mist the leaves regularly in dry weather. Worse where water is heavily mineralised. Worse when the tree is not watered from above regularly.
2. mildews - fungal infections that grow on leaves. Especially where foliage is regularly wet.
3. Some sucking pests can have white outer covering.
Some diagnostic features: can the white coating be removed easily with a fingernail? Can it be scrubbed off with something like a toothbrush and water? (let the leaf dry as some white coatings are transparent when wet)

Hi there sorry for the late response in arizona we do have hard water but I did do the test u recommended and the white coating came right off with my fingernail. About outdoors, I think i have a spot that I used for my old juniper (sadly dead) it is under an awning on the patio. It gets decent light but not very direct. This could work but I don't know about the summers I thought my last tree could survive and was sadly mistaken. Summers in AZ can get to the 110's F. Do you think this would be a problem? Also I really don't know about how cold it can survive but sometimes in winter in AZ it can get as low as 20 degrees. Also thought I would ask about watering I really don't even know where to start.

 

[BoB_Jr]

I think it would be good to get it outside in some sun. But putting it directly in direct sun after it’s been in low light and the dark for weeks would probably lead to leaf burn. So outside in the shade for a week would be good.

I’ve heard people bringing their Chinese elms inside for a day or two on occasion but they won’t live well indoors constantly. They are a good tree to learn with. They can handle more than most other deciduous.

Also add your climate zone and general area so people can help you better.

@WNC Bonsai why would it surviving a AZ winter be in question.

I really don't know what this means but looked it up and it said 9a.

 

[BoB_Jr]

I see a potential problem developing for you. The top of the tree has a number of branches packed in very tightly. This could lead to thickening of the trunk in that area and cause inverse taper there. Assuming the tree survives your AZ winter you’ll likely want to thin out the apex a bit. BTW cuttings root fairly easily so if you do thin the top there is an opportunity to create more new Chinese elms. I started with one and now have 6 last count.

Wow thanks for letting me know. AZ winters go around 20 degrees F but summers are the worry for me with temps around 110 degrees F. Asuming I am able to get the tree healthy again how would I fix the tightly packed branches?

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Wow thanks for letting me know. AZ winters go around 20 degrees F but summers are the worry for me with temps around 110 degrees F. Asuming I am able to get the tree healthy again how would I fix the tightly packed branches?

Thinning branches that cross, grow downward, straight up, or a just too many in a short area. There are a number of videos on YouTube that deal with pruning/thinning Chinese elms. Both Bonsaify and Greenwood Bonsai are good channels. I don’t have to deal with such high temps and have no idea how much heat Chinese elms can take. I would also be worried about the low humidity. Hopefully someone who has had success growing them under those conditions will add their comments. Take a look at this thread:

W

Thread 'Chinese Elm temperature'

Nov 10, 2023

Hi there all
I live in Melbourne Australia and have not long started the last month of spring so although we're having some very warm days temperatures are still changeable.
I have a problem with out of the ordinary leaf drop and having eliminated most things like over/under watering, enough sunlight (the tree lives outside), fertilizer etc I was wondering if it maybe heat stress.
It gets pretty hot on the balcony where it is but I thought I controlled temperature pretty well.
Anyway can anyone out there give me their opinion on maximum temperature limits that they stick by. I have read...

• WeeTree58
• Replies: 16
• Forum: General Discussion

• 

 

[Shibui]

I think i have a spot that I used for my old juniper (sadly dead) it is under an awning on the patio. It gets decent light but not very direct. This could work but I don't know about the summers I thought my last tree could survive and was sadly mistaken. Summers in AZ can get to the 110's F. Do you think this would be a problem? Also I really don't know about how cold it can survive but sometimes in winter in AZ it can get as low as 20 degrees.

Summer temps here not quite as hot as AZ but close. We get days up to 104 regularly and occasionally to 108. My Chinese elms get 50% shade through the hottest months and thrive. Watering is the key to trees surviving hot, dry conditions and it can take a few years to develop the skills to water thoroughly and regularly or find techniques to help the trees make it through hotter days.
Not sure how low Chines elms can go. We only get temps down to a few deg below freezing here but no problem for Chinese elms to live outside all winter. At 20F your tree may want some protection while it is dormant but probably much better to try to allow it to stay dormant rather than indoors and growing through winter. You should look for practical advice on winter protection (or not) from local growers with similar trees in similar conditions.

Asuming I am able to get the tree healthy again how would I fix the tightly packed branches?

Pruning shears can fix dense branching. Bonsai definitely need regular pruning. Sometimes just shortening new, elongating branches but sometimes removing entire branches when they become crowded.

 

[BoB_Jr]

Thinning branches that cross, grow downward, straight up, or a just too many in a short area. There are a number of videos on YouTube that deal with pruning/thinning Chinese elms. Both Bonsaify and Greenwood Bonsai are good channels. I don’t have to deal with such high temps and have no idea how much heat Chinese elms can take. I would also be worried about the low humidity. Hopefully someone who has had success growing them under those conditions will add their comments. Take a look at this thread:

W

Thread 'Chinese Elm temperature'

Nov 10, 2023

Hi there all
I live in Melbourne Australia and have not long started the last month of spring so although we're having some very warm days temperatures are still changeable.
I have a problem with out of the ordinary leaf drop and having eliminated most things like over/under watering, enough sunlight (the tree lives outside), fertilizer etc I was wondering if it maybe heat stress.
It gets pretty hot on the balcony where it is but I thought I controlled temperature pretty well.
Anyway can anyone out there give me their opinion on maximum temperature limits that they stick by. I have read...

• WeeTree58
• Replies: 16
• Forum: General Discussion

• 

Thanks, I will definitely make sure to check out some videos on pruning.

 

[BoB_Jr]

Summer temps here not quite as hot as AZ but close. We get days up to 104 regularly and occasionally to 108. My Chinese elms get 50% shade through the hottest months and thrive. Watering is the key to trees surviving hot, dry conditions and it can take a few years to develop the skills to water thoroughly and regularly or find techniques to help the trees make it through hotter days.
Not sure how low Chines elms can go. We only get temps down to a few deg below freezing here but no problem for Chinese elms to live outside all winter. At 20F your tree may want some protection while it is dormant but probably much better to try to allow it to stay dormant rather than indoors and growing through winter. You should look for practical advice on winter protection (or not) from local growers with similar trees in similar conditions.


Pruning shears can fix dense branching. Bonsai definitely need regular pruning. Sometimes just shortening new, elongating branches but sometimes removing entire branches when they become crowded.

OK i will try it outside. Our summers are so unpredictable I've seen it average 110 and get as high as 118 but some summers only get to 105. How would the shade work, could I potentially place it under a patio or would that be to much shade? Thanks so much for the help!

 

[BrightsideB]

If you are interested in getting more trees in the near future I have heard people in hot desert climates use shade cloth. But r search the right one with the right amount of light penetration. That way you don’t have to have your tree in a random spot in the yard that gives it enough shade. But sometimes there is the perfect spot and sometimes the right spot is in an awkward spot in the yard specially to enjoy the bonsai or water it.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

OK i will try it outside. Our summers are so unpredictable I've seen it average 110 and get as high as 118 but some summers only get to 105. How would the shade work, could I potentially place it under a patio or would that be to much shade? Thanks so much for the help!

Shade cloth is a woven cloth, usually made of some synthetic material with varying degrees of openness in the weave designed to allow different amounts of sunlight to pass through. Shibu said he uses 50% so it cuts down sunlight by that much. It usually comes in black or green and folks either drape it over a greenhouse, or set up like a tent—you can get inventive/creative with that. Most greenhouse supply companies offer all kinds of shade and shapes.