New auction maples

[Velodog2]

I have acquired no new trees this year other than what I have made from layers, so I bid to win yesterday on Facebook. (I was busy playing trivia at Buffalo Wild Wings using my phone as a game console when the auction ended so I just went in quickly during a break and doubled the last bid and hoped. I lost the trivia game tho. Got Andropov's dates mixed up with Gorbachev's and the fall of the Berlin Wall. Sigh. Got both the trees at least.)

They are seedlings of Seiryu, an upright dissectum, and I will attempt to preserve their current literati feel while adding actual branches. I am assuming as seedlings the nebaris will be awful and need remaking, but at least there will be no grafts to deal with. I don't know how well the leaves will reduce and keeping the tree in scale with them may be difficult. The petioles alone may be too much to deal with. There is always the winter profile I suppose. The rare deciduous literati is my goal. Wish me luck.

 

[Pachycaul]

Best of luck @Velodog2 ! The real challenge may be in keeping the number of shoots coming off the trunks. Petioles may be your "branches," individual leaves your foliage "masses." How large do you plan to let them get?

 

[Velodog2]

How large do you plan to let them get?

I really have no idea. Growing them larger occurred to me to help with relative leaf/petiole size and I may be able to do that to some extent. The curves, particularly in the second are a certain scale and won't work as well I don't think if I grow it out. "Faking it" as u mention w petioles as apparent branches is possible but tricky and I'd rather not. The smaller leaf/petiole near the base of the second gives me hope.

Long road ahead w these but I think there is potential. If I fail they will make nice landscape trees.

 

[Josh88]

Both of these really caught my eye on the auction, especially since you so rarely see anything similar used. It looks to me like there are a lot of options to create something really unique here. Good score and looking forward to seeing what you make of them.

 

[0soyoung]

I suggest you try putting it into a much much smaller shallow pot, @Velodog2. This will help to reduce leaf size and will also help to keep the thin trunk you presently have. Petiole size will also likely reduce somewhat.

Also remember that every one of this year's axillary buds (at the bases of the petioles) will likely be a new branch next year. Keeping leaves without getting a new branch means removing the shoot tip after the first leaf pair can be discerned. This will stop the extension of a new branch and you can remove one of the two leaves, if you want, once you can snip a petiole. Of course, don't do this if you want a branch.

 

[Pachycaul]

Both confining and ramifying the roots will help with leaf size reduction. Also, as much light as you can give it without crisping it will help with that. The high light will, however, work against the minimalist structure inherent to literati. Both starts have very delicate, elegant lines at the moment. It will be the challenge to maintain that sensibility.

 

[Velodog2]

I asked the seller how he had achieved the interesting bends and he said he had grown the seedlings under window screening. Not sure I understand (I assume it was loose) but that is a technique I'd not heard of in my many years of doing this. And hopefully I didn't spill a big secret here.

 

[Dan92119]

Not really a fan of Facebooks but I am curious where to find these auctions!

 

[thumblessprimate1]

I have acquired no new trees this year other than what I have made from layers, so I bid to win yesterday on Facebook. (I was busy playing trivia at Buffalo Wild Wings using my phone as a game console when the auction ended so I just went in quickly during a break and doubled the last bid and hoped. I lost the trivia game tho. Got Andropov's dates mixed up with Gorbachev's and the fall of the Berlin Wall. Sigh. Got both the trees at least.)
View attachment 161552 View attachment 161553
They are seedlings of Seiryu, an upright dissectum, and I will attempt to preserve their current literati feel while adding actual branches. I am assuming as seedlings the nebaris will be awful and need remaking, but at least there will be no grafts to deal with. I don't know how well the leaves will reduce and keeping the tree in scale with them may be difficult. The petioles alone may be too much to deal with. There is always the winter profile I suppose. The rare deciduous literati is my goal. Wish me luck.

I like that second one very much.

 

[music~maker]

I suggest you try putting it into a much much smaller shallow pot, @Velodog2. This will help to reduce leaf size and will also help to keep the thin trunk you presently have. Petiole size will also likely reduce somewhat.

Also remember that every one of this year's axillary buds (at the bases of the petioles) will likely be a new branch next year. Keeping leaves without getting a new branch means removing the shoot tip after the first leaf pair can be discerned. This will stop the extension of a new branch and you can remove one of the two leaves, if you want, once you can snip a petiole. Of course, don't do this if you want a branch.

Really, you'd go with a smaller pot? There's still a lot of development needed here - as it is, the current pot size will make that happen pretty slowly. Trunk size can be constrained by simply shortening the leading branch if it starts to get too long, and generally not letting things run past where they need to be. Keeping this lightly constrained, but mostly just growing should result in some back-budding, but at the very least it will result in a nice healthy tree to work with. I find constraining root systems too early just seems to weaken the tree. If anything, I'd up-pot this slightly in the spring, let it run until early summer, then shorten the new growth to encourage lower branches to show up.

If OP mostly lets this grow, and just very slowly chases the foliage down the trunk over, say, a five year period ... by the time branching is down near the bottom of the trunk, the trunk will have developed along the way, the nebari will have developed along the way, and the current trunk shape will have mostly remained intact. But I would definitely let it develop a nice strong root system while doing this, and then constrain the roots more after that.

 

[Velodog2]

I think the point of constraining growth was to maintain the literati appearance by preventing excessive trunk thickening. I will not be concerned about leaf and petiole reduction until styling is much further advanced. I also won't be wanting to chase branching down the trunk for the same reason.

I'm not sure how to proceed really. The trees are so immature it's maybe not reasonable to expect them to be able to retain too much of the current look at the same time they are being developed. They will tell me what they want to do to a large extent. We will see.

 

[music~maker]

I think the point of constraining growth was to maintain the literati appearance by preventing excessive trunk thickening. I will not be concerned about leaf and petiole reduction until styling is much further advanced. I also won't be wanting to chase branching down the trunk for the same reason.

Sure, but you can do that by pruning the top while still keeping the bottom healthy. Chasing the foliage down the trunk won't necessarily result in much trunk thickening, though if you give the roots a little bit more room to stretch out, you will likely improve the flair at the base of the tree somewhat. But chasing the foliage will help you build a strong, healthy tree while maintaining the trunk for the most part, as-is. You have to let it grow at some point - you just decide where to let that happen.

I'm not sure how to proceed really. The trees are so immature it's maybe not reasonable to expect them to be able to retain too much of the current look at the same time they are being developed. They will tell me what they want to do to a large extent. We will see.

It's tempting to want to just keep it small, and to constrain everything, but you'll get a better tree if you just let it stretch out a little and slowly scale it up into a form you find pleasing. But yes, letting the tree show you how it wants to proceed is not a bad strategy - then modify from there.

 

[GrimLore]

Not sure I understand (I assume it was loose) but that is a technique I'd not heard of in my many years of doing this. And hopefully I didn't spill a big secret here.

Drop a window screen on a bunch of seedlings, leave it until they bend a bit, raise it a bit, rinse repeat

Grimmy

 

[thumblessprimate1]

I think the point of constraining growth was to maintain the literati appearance by preventing excessive trunk thickening. I will not be concerned about leaf and petiole reduction until styling is much further advanced. I also won't be wanting to chase branching down the trunk for the same reason.

I'm not sure how to proceed really. The trees are so immature it's maybe not reasonable to expect them to be able to retain too much of the current look at the same time they are being developed. They will tell me what they want to do to a large extent. We will see.

With time, my tree will change too. I'm not restraining mines growth. I intend to keep the tree small though. Portions will be removed for taper and more movement and along with that movement that was already created. Got plans to ground layer in future.

 

[0soyoung]

Got plans to ground layer in future.

WHAT???

You don't think that straight peg coming out of the soil is it's most interesting feature?

 

[Velodog2]

With time, my tree will change too. I'm not restraining mines growth. I intend to keep the tree small though. Portions will be removed for taper and more movement and along with that movement that was already created. Got plans to ground layer in future.

View attachment 161973

Yikes. Now that is an exercise in styling. I'm not even sure how I'd hang branches on that. Look forward to seeing it tho!

 

[thumblessprimate1]

WHAT???

You don't think that straight peg coming out of the soil is it's most interesting feature?

I know, but just a little nebari is all I'm asking for.

Yikes. Now that is an exercise in styling. I'm not even sure how I'd hang branches on that. Look forward to seeing it tho!

I'm trying to plan it out myself. We'll see.

 

[music~maker]

Drop a window screen on a bunch of seedlings, leave it until they bend a bit, raise it a bit, rinse repeat

Grimmy

Or let the seedlings grow in areas with less than ideal lighting. I have some ash trees that have grown almost exactly like these. The only thing different about them vs. other ones is that they've grown in areas where they had to fight for their light. Either right up against a fence, or in between larger plants. No intervention required, you just can't predict exactly what you're going to get. =)

But I have at least a few good ones that have grown this way that I know I can eventually turn into something interesting.

 

[Velodog2]

The trees came last week, in perfect condition and as pictured.

It's always hard to tell scale in a picture and I was pleasantly surprised that the leaves are smaller than I had perceived. They should be able to be reduced further when the time comes to worry about such things.


As anticipated, since they are actual seedlings there is no nebari, only a long taproot with randomly spaced side roots. Base layering will have a high priority, possibly after they harden off after next year's growth, as I want the layering scars, which I hate, to have as much time as possible to disappear. No intention to do anything to them before then.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Still so young. I see no reason to hurry into layering it yet. What layering scars are you talking about? I'm not understanding that part.