My first San Jose Juniper

[Eric Group]

Got it in October, haven't done much with it thus far.. Thinking of grafting Shimp foliage onto it. No real specific plan yet.
Any suggestions are welcomed. Base is about 2-3 inches.

 

[garywood]

Graft

 

[Eric Schrader]

Long term I find San Jose to be unworkable. Prostrata seems to be doable, but at least here in the Bay Area, SJ junipers feel like beating your head against a wall. I typically recommend grafting Kishu on them.

What you might consider is creating some shari, and letting the thing grow out while you perform the grafts. That way you increase the age in the trunk at the same time you're changing the foliage.

 

[Adair M]

Long term I find San Jose to be unworkable. Prostrata seems to be doable, but at least here in the Bay Area, SJ junipers feel like beating your head against a wall. I typically recommend grafting Kishu on them.

What you might consider is creating some shari, and letting the thing grow out while you perform the grafts. That way you increase the age in the trunk at the same time you're changing the foliage.

Eric, I agree with you about San Jose. However, about a year ago there was one in Boon's garden that was 99 percent scale. I don't think it was Boon's but it was for sale. That one was the best I'd ever seen. I have no idea if it's still there, or how long it had been at Boon's.

Anyway, if it were mine, I'd graft new foliage. Not only would you get better foliage, you can place the branches right where you want them.

 

[Djtommy]

Long term I find San Jose to be unworkable. Prostrata seems to be doable, but at least here in the Bay Area, SJ junipers feel like beating your head against a wall. I typically recommend grafting Kishu on them.

What you might consider is creating some shari, and letting the thing grow out while you perform the grafts. That way you increase the age in the trunk at the same time you're changing the foliage.

Why kishu actually? From what i have seen itoigawa seems to grow nicer pads naturaly where as kishu grows more in tuffs.
I dont own any myself though.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Why kishu actually? From what i have seen itoigawa seems to grow nicer pads naturaly where as kishu grows more in tuffs.
I dont own any myself though.

Kishu is pretty predictable. It does ball up some, but correct trimming can keep pads in balance. I love the smaller texture and lime-green color of Itoigawa, but the foliage reverts to juvenile without much provocation, and can take a full growing season or more of gentle trimming to coax it back to mature foliage.

I pruned this Itoigawa hard in December 2014, and lightly trimmed it once in 2015. You can see it's just now getting back to 80% adult foliage, and still needs to be thinned out. So it's a constant battle: prune back, or keep mature foliage. Still worth it IMO, but definitely more effort than Kishu.

 

[johng]

sell it on Facebook There is nothing about this tree that makes it worth grafting.

Get yourself some decent material dude

You know we are buddies, so don't take this the wrong way, but you have one of the best sources for trees in your flippin neighborhood and you still go buy crap from the big box stores????? Indenture yourself to Ken and in no time you will have a great collection and some really good experience to go along!

You can always come see me as well...

 

[Eric Group]

sell it on Facebook There is nothing about this tree that makes it worth grafting.

Get yourself some decent material dude

You know we are buddies, so don't take this the wrong way, but you have one of the best sources for trees in your flippin neighborhood and you still go buy crap from the big box stores????? Indenture yourself to Ken and in no time you will have a great collection and some really good experience to go along!

You can always come see me as well...

Thanks John! I am sure you know how much I value your advice and opinions! You know most of my best stock has come from you, Ken and Roy, right? I would literally have a bunch of box store crap if not for you guys...

This tree was actually purchased at the Carolina Bonsai Expo from Mehans. I also got a Korean Hornbeam from them. I see some potential for a nice tree in the lower part of this trunk. There is good movement, a wide base with good taper, and interesting bark. I know it is hard to see in 2-D... Not a stunner by any means right now! I was not planning to keep anything above the bottom third/half.

Still, to be honest, the thought of selling it on FB had definitely crossed my mind. Except... now anybody who reads this forum with think it is crap! Thanks a lot! Wait... This is a ploy to get me to sell it right? You really think it is awesome and want to buy it? LOL
JK

 

[Eric Group]

Long term I find San Jose to be unworkable. Prostrata seems to be doable, but at least here in the Bay Area, SJ junipers feel like beating your head against a wall. I typically recommend grafting Kishu on them.

What you might consider is creating some shari, and letting the thing grow out while you perform the grafts. That way you increase the age in the trunk at the same time you're changing the foliage.

Thanks Eric! Very good advice, and that is right in line with my plans... Well... The plans I had until John told me my dream tree was garbage! LOL

I think the spots @garywood pointed out for grafts make a lot of sense, but I haven't done this sort of grafting with Junipers, so since this was an inexpensive piece of stock, maybe it would be a good learning project if I decide to keep it.

I have never done this sort of grafting, but it seems from what I have read approach grafts are what people normally do, correct? Normally using small cuttings in pots, right? Obviously you cannot thread graft with Juiniper, but I mean you would not cut off a branch and try to graft it on like a scion for a Pine by putting it under the cambium, would you? Just wondering how YOU guys do it...

Thanks!

 

[Eric Schrader]

Why kishu actually? From what i have seen itoigawa seems to grow nicer pads naturaly where as kishu grows more in tuffs.
I dont own any myself though.

I prefer Kishu, the color, texture etc. But Itoigawa is perfectly good too. It's less tolerant of major work than Kishu, but still really good.

As for the type of graft - I use approach grafts for large trees and scions for smaller ones.

I think you would have good success for this tree in early spring if you did a few scion grafts; as a novice plan for half of them to fail. Typically, place the receiving plant in a warmer location than the donating tree. Do the grafts as the receiving plant is just showing signs of new foliage growth but the donating plant is still (visibly) dormant. You should also be able to do them a bit earlier than this time period if you need to. You want the tree growing vigorously, so if you plan to repot, do it in a gentle fashion, without removing tons of roots.

 

[Eric Group]

I prefer Kishu, the color, texture etc. But Itoigawa is perfectly good too. It's less tolerant of major work than Kishu, but still really good.

As for the type of graft - I use approach grafts for large trees and scions for smaller ones.

I think you would have good success for this tree in early spring if you did a few scion grafts; as a novice plan for half of them to fail. Typically, place the receiving plant in a warmer location than the donating tree. Do the grafts as the receiving plant is just showing signs of new foliage growth but the donating plant is still (visibly) dormant. You should also be able to do them a bit earlier than this time period if you need to. You want the tree growing vigorously, so if you plan to repot, do it in a gentle fashion, without removing tons of roots.

Thanks Eric! Those are the kinds of tips I was looking for! I am certainly a novice when it comes to grafts... I have thread grafted a Maple branch back onto itself, lower on the trunk... It seems to have made it, will know for sure this Spring...
I have done a few approach grafts on a Crepe Myrtle, but the first ones I tried did not take. I think I should have gone deeper and attached it more securely..

I am currently "grafting together" some Shimpaku whips to make one larger, twisty crazy mess... Just an experiment, but they seem to be melting together well thus far!

So, for the "scion" grafts- cut into the cambium- with a crazy sharp knife- deep enough to see white, fit the branch into the notch and tie it in with grafting tape... Sound about right? Do it on top of the receiving branch? Should the scion be about the same size as the receiving branch?

Thanks for all the advice. Maybe I could just use this tree as a practice one, and then if it doesn't turn out to be something I want to keep I can sell it to @johng on Facebook for MORE because it will have grafted Shimpaku foliage!

 

[Eric Schrader]

This post of Jonas' shows it pretty well:

http://bonsaitonight.com/2013/04/30/grafting-utah-juniper-a-post-without-words/

But your description sounds about right. I find the most challenging part is actually securing the bag in place without moving the scion out of alignment with the cambium of the receiving plant.

The great thing about grafting on is as you say - your plant is much more valuable afterward.

 

[garywood]

This post of Jonas' shows it pretty well:

http://bonsaitonight.com/2013/04/30/grafting-utah-juniper-a-post-without-words/

But your description sounds about right. I find the most challenging part is actually securing the bag in place without moving the scion out of alignment with the cambium of the receiving plant.

The great thing about grafting on is as you say - your plant is much more valuable afterward.

I've said it before BUT BUDDY TAPE is the best thing to come along since pockets on a shirt

 

[Eric Schrader]

I've said it before BUT BUDDY TAPE is the best thing to come along since pockets on a shirt

@garywood - Is that another term for Parafilm?

 

[garywood]

@garywood - Is that another term for Parafilm?

Eric, it's a brand name for parafilm tape. Easily found and not nearly the hassle to apply.

 

[Eric Group]

Ok, well I came up with such a great plan and had such wonderful advice about this tree... I decided... TO SELL IT!

Shocker? Well if anyone else liked it and wants a shot to own it, you have until tomorrow night to bid on it at the $.99 Facebook page! Last I checked it was bumped up to like $90! I am pretty happy with that number! Just thought I would give my friends here a shot at owning it and if someone does buy it, perhaps they can just piggy back development into this thread? Bahh... Prolly dreaming on that, right? Just an FYI for any interested parties!

If anyone is wondering what prompted me to change my mind about this tree? Nothing! But a buddy of mine on that site sent me some pics of a Koyo pot I NEEDED! It cost more than I had ever spent on a pot - OR TREE for that matter LOL that seems odd to hear by most I am sure but I have been fortunate to collect or be gifted most of my best trees! The rest were from propagation. I cannot propagate pots... YET!

So with the expenditure of a large sum of money I decided selling a nice tree would be a good trade off... And having studied this one long and hard I felt.... Better about other trees I have to work with than this one. Generally speaking I prefer Deciduous trees anyway.

 

[Eric Group]

Thank you to Eric and Gary for taking the time to offer such valuable advice though... Almost made me feel bad about selling it! LOL