My Chinese Elm

rokr · Jun 11, 2016

Hey,
Im new to bonsai so need all the additional help i can get (when my head is not in a bonsai book)

Anybody care to advise what branches to remove?

Anybody care to do a virt of what can be achieved?

?

JoeR · Jun 11, 2016

Thats a really good first tree!

I wouldnt do anything rash.

sorce · Jun 11, 2016

Looks right tiny too!

That's a question for up close and personal IMO....

If you're willing to take the pictures....
We can try.

Welcome to Crazy!

As for a virt...
Look at a park tree unimpeded and in full sun. That's a nice piece!

Sorce

erb.75 · Jun 11, 2016

I kind of like it the way it is....enjoy your tree!

aml1014 · Jun 11, 2016

Very nice little tree!

Only thing I personally would do right now is remove that lowest right branch in your second picture. It's on the inside of the trunks curve and will cause reverse taper, and you'll lose that nice little wiggle!

Aaron

rokr · Jun 12, 2016

Thanks guys.

I was tempted to wire that right branch downwards slightly but shall I now remove it?

I have another 's' trunk elm which I'm thinking of styling into a semi cascade

Mike MoMo · Jun 12, 2016

As I was saying before my phone glitch. The first elm I Love it! Not too much of a s curve. The lower two branches are questionable but hey I have killed trees being prune happy. The second just let it Grow, semi and full cascades look great with a counterbalancing branch. So let it grow and enjoy the journey.

Tieball · Jun 12, 2016

I think you need to go in and remove undesired branches where there are multiple branches growing to close together at the trunk. Seems there's a lot of that on the upper left side. However....that's what I see in the photo...it's possible that at a different angle those branches are not as close as I believe. Or let it all grow...perhaps in person it looks perfectly natural with the multiple branches. Just my thoughts.

Leo in N E Illinois · Jun 21, 2016

Really nice for someone who is new to bonsai. That first tree is well beyond the ''pre-bonsai'' phase. Nice. Did you have this tree long?

For the first tree, I want to say, go slow, and thoughtfully. don't make any cuts until you understand how it will improve the tree. You have a great start.

If the first one were mine, I would work on 2 things. The lowest branches should be the largest in diameter. The uppermost should be the thinnest in diameter. I would go through and remove thick branches in the middle and top. Your 2 or 3 lowest branches need to be thickened up some.

As you remove branches that are out of place or sequence in terms of thickness, (too thick or too thin) Keep in mind the pattern of alternating sides and then a back branch. about 2/3 the way up, the alternating sequence can include front and back branches. Front branches should be slightly to one side or the other. You should aim for one branch at each level. Try to avoid branches exactly at the same level, or two or more branches coming out at the same point. You have many more branches than this tree needs. Try eliminating about 25% and see how it looks.

sorce · Jun 21, 2016

I'm with those explanations a lot.

There is sooooo many branches to chose from...

Maybe some kind of a system, tagging the heaviest and lightest and such with different color twist ties or something would help.

Or maybe just use one color and wrap the keepers from the bottom up...
So they stand out...
And then start over till you're happy.

This will serve as great wiring practice too.

Definitely don't go cut crazy...

That is a dope ass tree...

The second...
Let it grow!

Sorce

Leo in N E Illinois · Jun 21, 2016

If a branch is needed at a spot but is too thin, it can be thickened by letting it grow out, without pruning back. This technique is called an ''escape branch'', and can be used to thicken a branch, or thicken a trunk. You can let a branch grow several feet, while keeping the rest pruned short, to get the desired thickening.

I did look again at the photo. I would consider removing the two bottom branches, and choosing first branch from one of the thicker branches higher up in the tree. The bottom branches do both seem to come from the same point on the inside of a curve, which is not ideal. Consider it. You don't absolutely have to do it, the curve is not that strong a curve, you can get away with keeping them. Or just get rid of one of the two.

Leo in N E Illinois · Jun 21, 2016

2nd, I would try wiring the tree. Lowest branches should sag more, or be closer to horizontal, than the upper. Only the top most branches should be close to vertical. It should be a sequence from bottom to top, you can choose how horizontal you want to go, your choice for the bottom 2 branches will determine the angle for all the branches.

The tree needs to be wired, in autumn after leaf drop would be soon enough. Or if you defoliate the tree, you can wire then.

Leo in N E Illinois · Jun 21, 2016

There is more, but you already have a long ''to do list'', after you get the thickness of branches sorted, I or others will share.

Really nice start on first tree, it has lots of potential.

As for 2nd tree, doesn't do much for me, The suggestion to let it grow will give you more design options in the future. Do proceed with your cascade plans. it will be interesting.

rokr · Jun 21, 2016

Hey,

Thanks for the responses guys, thank you Leo for your advice!

Had the tree about 2 months now brought for £50.

This weekend I will take a good look at the branch structure. I was going to remove all the finest branches from the trunk with a view to have only a few thick branches to which foliage pads can be built upon. As I stated, I was contemplating guy wiring that lowest left branch but if it'll cause inverse taper I think it will have to be removed. Can you perhaps put a red dot on the branches which should defiantly be removed perhaps?
Also am I to take leaves down to only 2 pairs per branch?

Thanks for you input!

sorce · Jun 22, 2016

It's kinda hard to tell from these pics...
Really hard actually.

Here my thought...

That base (brown line) is nice and wide so I'd make that (pink arrow) my front.

But then it seems leaning away...so maybe pull it forward (purple arrow) next repot.

And that red branch is the only one that maybe surely should go cuz of that bulge it's creating.

For start....

I would go into the top...and remove 1 or 2 heavy branches that are SURELY to big.

I would hedge cut it as a triangle for now.
To keep the top weaker, so that first branch can be let to run and thicken up.

No cutty too much...

How bout some new pics?
Closeups of the branches off the trunk may suffice.
As...thickness And placement is all that matters....everything else can grow back rather quick.

Sorce