Managing growth in Yatsubusa and Seiju elm

[Hartinez]

This thread is being starting for myself and others to learn more about growth management on seiju, yatsubusa and other branch clumping elms from practitioners who have experience with them.

last summer I ordered a Yatsubusa, a Seiju and a Corticosa elm from evergreen garden works. All were in exceptional health, shipped flawlessly and fairly priced. I knew and expected the habits of these elms but I’m hoping to get more insight into managing the “lumps” that form when multiple branches shoot from one location. I’ve seen exceptional examples of mature elms but am wondering what was done to combat inverse taper etc.

For instance. Here is my Yatsubusa that has multiple bulges along the lower trunk. Should I cut these back with concave cutters and apply paste? Or will the scars from healing be worse than the lumps? Do the lumps eventually blend in to the trunk once it begins to bark up?
all I did when I received this one was up pot, and I plan on sorting out the roots and flattening that ball at bud break. I’ll prob plant on a tile in an Andersen flat and let extend for the year.

@just.wing.it youve got a cork bark. Any insight in the time you’ve had yours? Things you’ve noticed? @Shibui have you cultivated any of these down under? @Leo in N E Illinois i always love your insight.

anyways, I hope this thread can be a resource for these elms

 

[luvinthemountains]

Wow, that is impressive caliper for a starter plant! Can I ask what size liner you bought? I have been tempted to order some of these from Brent.

I have a Hokkaido elm that is relentless about pushing buds from every node, no matter how aggressively I scrape the node tissue back. They are incredible trees. This has been very useful for when I want to produce a new branch to fill in space, but when I do, it always throws multiple branches from the same spot. What I have found is that branches extend much more quickly when I prune the multiple shoots down to one.

I do not, however, have experience with how this group of cultivars deals with cutting back the lumps you point out. I will watch this thread to see if any good answers float to the top. My point of view, though, is that when I have seen large, impressive specimens, those lumps give them a lot of character.

 

[Hartinez]

Wow, that is impressive caliper for a starter plant! Can I ask what size liner you bought? I have been tempted to order some of these from Brent.

I have a Hokkaido elm that is relentless about pushing buds from every node, no matter how aggressively I scrape the node tissue back. They are incredible trees. This has been very useful for when I want to produce a new branch to fill in space, but when I do, it always throws multiple branches from the same spot. What I have found is that branches extend much more quickly when I prune the multiple shoots down to one.

I do not, however, have experience with how this group of cultivars deals with cutting back the lumps you point out. I will watch this thread to see if any good answers float to the top. My point of view, though, is that when I have seen large, impressive specimens, those lumps give them a lot of character.

I was also pleasantly surprised at the caliper of trunk this one had. It came in a 1 gal and was only $35. Pretty sure the roots flare really well below the soil as well!

yes I’m also anxiously awaiting other responses from those that have more experience with these. Thanks for chiming in!

 

[LanceMac10]

got a little corker...and have had Seiju, Hokkaido.....would not hack at those lumps......not sure if they grow out with time, either. Embrace the lumps!

 

[LanceMac10]

@Bonsai Nut has lot's of experience of growing Elms in SoCal, including many varieties not often seen. Hopefully he can provide some input concerning horticultural approaches from that experience growing Elms in an arid and hot environment?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Should I cut these back with concave cutters and apply paste? Or will the scars from healing be worse than the lumps? Do the lumps eventually blend in to the trunk once it begins to bark up?

I have numerous trees of all of your listed cultivars. Those lumps that you are seeing are characteristic of yatsubusas. In fact, I have a variegated yatsubusa that I am growing cuttings from, and I can visually see which cuttings are yatsubusas (even when defoliated during the winter) due to that growth habit. The bad news... they can look a little unsightly(?) if you are looking for a clean bark. The great news - you will get back buds, naturally, from those locations, if you aggressively prune the tree.

The challenge with yatsubusa elms is not (in my opinion) those bark lumps, but rather their growth habit, which tends to be thin and somewhat gangly. If you are looking for a chunky elm, they are not going to chunk up for you like a corticosa, and their dwarf habit makes them a little weak in terms of throwing out long leaders that create trunk caliper. So... you have to embrace it for what it is. But whatever you do, don't try to carve out the lumps, because that is part of their natural growth. FWIW I think that was a pretty big tree to get from Brent. I am interested in that big chunky root behind the trunk.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I agree, don't scrape off or carve off the lumps. Embrace the lumpy appearance.

If you have an area that you are afraid of developing reverse taper, as long as the plan includes increasing the diameter of the trunk at that point, you can control growth to induce normal taper. Low escape branches are the way to keep taper.

My experience is mostly limited to 'Sejiu'. Embrace the lumps. Do reduce clusters of branches to a single branch.

 

[Shibui]

I also grow a number of Chinese elm varieties including Corky bark, Seiju and Hokkaido.
Do not try to remove those lumps on trunks. The healing process definitely makes the problem worse. In time all of those varieties produce corky bark which will cover these lumps so they are only temporary.

I also acknowledge the growth habit mentioned by @Bonsai Nut. Seiju in particular produces long, straight unbranched shoots that produce trunks like the original example if allowed to grow freely. Pruning is the key to getting good shape and ramification. Fortunately they respond very well to both light trimming and hard pruning.

Multiple shoots are also common, especially after hard pruning. Need to be vigilant and remove excess shoots before they have time to produce local thickening. If you don't have the time or inclination for this but want good style and taper I would suggest choosing some other species to work with.

 

[just.wing.it]

This thread is being starting for myself and others to learn more about growth management on seiju, yatsubusa and other branch clumping elms from practitioners who have experience with them.

last summer I ordered a Yatsubusa, a Seiju and a Corticosa elm from evergreen garden works. All were in exceptional health, shipped flawlessly and fairly priced. I knew and expected the habits of these elms but I’m hoping to get more insight into managing the “lumps” that form when multiple branches shoot from one location. I’ve seen exceptional examples of mature elms but am wondering what was done to combat inverse taper etc.

For instance. Here is my Yatsubusa that has multiple bulges along the lower trunk. Should I cut these back with concave cutters and apply paste? Or will the scars from healing be worse than the lumps? Do the lumps eventually blend in to the trunk once it begins to bark up?
all I did when I received this one was up pot, and I plan on sorting out the roots and flattening that ball at bud break. I’ll prob plant on a tile in an Andersen flat and let extend for the year. View attachment 361966View attachment 361967

@just.wing.it youve got a cork bark. Any insight in the time you’ve had yours? Things you’ve noticed? @Shibui have you cultivated any of these down under? @Leo in N E Illinois i always love your insight.

anyways, I hope this thread can be a resource for these elms

Mine hasn't changed much in the 2 seasons I've had it.
And mine had a thicker trunk when I obtained it....but I would imagine that they will blend in eventually....adding some cool character.

 

[M. Frary]

If you can get branches to sprout next to the lumps let them grow in order to fatten the areas between the lumps.
Dont let more than one branch sprout from the same spot or on a lump unless it needs it there for design.

 

[Hartinez]

got a little corker...and have had Seiju, Hokkaido.....would not hack at those lumps......not sure if they grow out with time, either. Embrace the lumps!

Word to that. Lump

I have numerous trees of all of your listed cultivars. Those lumps that you are seeing are characteristic of yatsubusas. In fact, I have a variegated yatsubusa that I am growing cuttings from, and I can visually see which cuttings are yatsubusas (even when defoliated during the winter) due to that growth habit. The bad news... they can look a little unsightly(?) if you are looking for a clean bark. The great news - you will get back buds, naturally, from those locations, if you aggressively prune the tree.

The challenge with yatsubusa elms is not (in my opinion) those bark lumps, but rather their growth habit, which tends to be thin and somewhat gangly. If you are looking for a chunky elm, they are not going to chunk up for you like a corticosa, and their dwarf habit makes them a little weak in terms of throwing out long leaders that create trunk caliper. So... you have to embrace it for what it is. But whatever you do, don't try to carve out the lumps, because that is part of their natural growth. FWIW I think that was a pretty big tree to get from Brent. I am interested in that big chunky root behind the trunk.

Thanks Greg. I was def aware of the multi shoot habits, but had seen enough nice ones to order. I also wanted more elms in my collection as they can take the slightly harsher conditions my area provides. I feel lucky with the one I got. I think I’m going to find some really nice flare below the soil line. I may change my tune on the yatsubusa I received from Brent. Rather than grow out, I may just chop back hard and build a shohin. That means chopping off a considerable amount of branches though. What’s the thickest caliber cutting you’ve taken from a yatsubusa? It would be nice to root out several if not all of the branches for future shohin or nebari approach grafts.

maybe a cut here




Fortunately I also ordered a corticosa and I already sorted out the roots and repotted that one With the intention of growing out. This one I’ll get in to an anderson flat next year, growth permitting.

 

[Hartinez]

I also grow a number of Chinese elm varieties including Corky bark, Seiju and Hokkaido.
Do not try to remove those lumps on trunks. The healing process definitely makes the problem worse. In time all of those varieties produce corky bark which will cover these lumps so they are only temporary.

I also acknowledge the growth habit mentioned by @Bonsai Nut. Seiju in particular produces long, straight unbranched shoots that produce trunks like the original example if allowed to grow freely. Pruning is the key to getting good shape and ramification. Fortunately they respond very well to both light trimming and hard pruning.

Multiple shoots are also common, especially after hard pruning. Need to be vigilant and remove excess shoots before they have time to produce local thickening. If you don't have the time or inclination for this but want good style and taper I would suggest choosing some other species to work with.

Thanks shibui. I think you’ll remember me directly messaging you about maples With questions. well I’ve come to the conclusion that maples absolutely hate my environment, water source and my schedule and are not for me. You had said that that may be the case! Elms however, seem to love it here. I had a rough bonsai year last year, losing several trees So I’ve decided to keep my collection smaller to maintain better. I def plan on staying on top of these. good to know about the barking up long term, I kind of figured that may be the case, but did not know for sure.

 

[Hartinez]

If you can get branches to sprout next to the lumps let them grow in order to fatten the areas between the lumps.
Dont let more than one branch sprout from the same spot or on a lump unless it needs it there for design.

Sound and simple advice. Thanks frary.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Elms are pretty easy to air-layer. Before I would cut back too hard, I would consider air-layering off the top.

 

[luvinthemountains]

got a little corker...and have had Seiju, Hokkaido.....would not hack at those lumps......not sure if they grow out with time, either. Embrace the lumps!

Cool little tree, but I hope that photo is not recent - otherwise, you are due for a repot!

 

[JonW]

Really nice tree! I got a few gallon size trees from Brent last year. They were nice and healthy, but not nearly as ramified as that elm.

I sold a cork bark last year and I have a seiju. I went through with tweezers and picked off unnecessary buds that grow in these whirls/lumps. The healing process thickens areas, so I'd agree with others: extra wounds worsen the problem.

Similar to you, I have most of my trees that are in development in pond baskets or air pruning pots with pumice. I cover the top with sphagnum moss, some small bits of green moss and Jobe's fertilizer. I plan to let them grow mostly untouched all summer and then cut back hard in the fall - I think this should add some thickness (and bark) that hide some knuckles, and helps with taper since elms can grow pretty tall without changes in taper. As long as you don't let too many branches grow at the same spot, I also think the knuckles are just a character, not a flaw.

 

[LanceMac10]

Cool little tree, but I hope that photo is not recent - otherwise, you are due for a repot!

re-potted 2018....


got a little @sorce # I'll try to get it into in a couple weeks or so...