Making a J. Maple bonsai?

[Lauren Shisler]

So, new to this whole bonsai thing, I know bonsai are made from larger tree/bushes. One would cut a tree back until the proper size for a bonsai. (And hope new shoots would spring from the cut off area area correct?)

I went to my local nursery and they had some Japanese maples, and I thought eventually I could make myself a bonsai from something like this! ( it's labeled Crimson queen, I thought it had the potential to be very beautiful one day..)

The tree itself is maybe 2-1/2 -3 feet tall.



I was wondering I were to cut it say, here marked in red (to make it about 10 inches) could something like this be done and not horrifically butcher a good tree? It would have new growth from this area eventually?

 

[Jester217300]

Crimson Queen is not a good variety for bonsai. Big leaves, long internodes, coarse growth, grafted, and generally weaker than most JM cultivars.

Even if you find a better cultivar the tree you have pictured is a little too young for bonsai work. Sometimes we buy things young because we want to grow them into pre-bonsai. That's fine as long as you understand that in advance.

If you're buying something to work on NOW you want something older and bigger.

 

[Lauren Shisler]

Crimson Queen is not a good variety for bonsai. Big leaves, long internodes, coarse growth, grafted, and generally weaker than most JM cultivars.

If you're buying something to work on NOW you want something older and bigger.

Is there any particular type of j. Maple that is particularly good forbonsai? My nursery had a whole bunch, including larger specimens.

But I hesitate with the idea that chopping more than half the tree off, isn't that a bit of a waste?

 

[GGB]

Hey Lauren, assuming you're brand new to the art, I'll share a "rule?" for lack of a better word I still live by. I'm also very new, so this rule can be broken with experience but ... I never buy cultivars. I look for the two word scientific name (binomial nomenclature) anything added to that can mean grafting. Or specifically grafting scars, which are ugly and can lead to two different types of growth if not managed. cultivars that are taken from cuttings, you'll learn to tell them apart, or maybe you know already, don't mean to insult you, are much better. I'm just personally a purest looking for the natural thing so it's all preference. I use acer palmatum (japanse maple) that grew from seed. This way I know what I've got is what it is and always will be.
Also, it's nice to see a fellow enthusiast from PA, feel like there's not a lot of us here. Greetings and hang tight there's so much to learn.

 

[ColinFraser]

You would do well to read up about taper and proportion in bonsai before considering chopping down nursery stock.

I know bonsai are made from larger tree/bushes. One would cut a tree back until the proper size for a bonsai

That's not entirely correct, as there is another half to it. Trees are cut back AND then regrown. Larger stock isn't just cut to the finished bonsai height; the first chop is often as low as 1/3 (or sometimes even less) the height of the envisioned final tree, and rarely over 1/2 the finished height. If the trunk in your photo was worth working on, the first chop would be lower than the graft!

But I hesitate with the idea that chopping more than half the tree off, isn't that a bit of a waste?

You're just going to have to get over that if you want make bonsai from nursery stock. You are buying a trunk ONLY. Go in assuming all of the branches will be cut off, and see if what you're left with is still worth buying.

Finally, the other advice so far has been good too:
1. This cultivar probably isn't great (not impossible, definitely not great for a beginner) for bonsai.
2. Avoiding grafted trees is probably best practice. If you do buy a grafted tree, the graft should be much lower than this one.
4. A tiny little thin trunk like that need years of growing (unmolested, no bonsai training whatsoever) before it achieves a diameter that will make a reasonable bonsai.

 

[ColinFraser]

Oh, and forgive me for forgetting - Hello, and welcome to crazy

Also, you may find this useful:
https://bonsaial.wordpress.com/2014/10/12/maple-trunk-chopping/

 

[Lauren Shisler]

Oh, and forgive me for forgetting - Hello, and welcome to crazy

Also, you may find this useful:
https://bonsaial.wordpress.com/2014/10/12/maple-trunk-chopping/

Thank you! I look forward to the crazy!
I took a quick look, and that article is super helpful! Thank you

If love to go for something more easy like elm, but I didn't see any at my local nursery , leaving me with only a few options

1) buying any of the maples they had and going for a trunk chop
2) or buy online. ( which I'd probably only get a pencil thin trunk, or invest 75$+ for a further along specimen.)

Have you had any luck with online retailers?

 

[Lauren Shisler]

Even if you find a better cultivar the tree you have pictured is a little too young for bonsai work. Sometimes we buy things young because we want to grow them into pre-bonsai. That's fine as long as you understand that in advance.

If you're buying something to work on NOW you want something older and bigger.

I understand the whole process of creating a wonderful bonsai is quite lengthy. But those are the kinds of projects I happen to love! I'm just stuck between being little twigs of trees or larger ( typically 1-1 1/2 inch trunk)

I expect to be luck to maybe do one thing to each bonsai in a year or maybe two if I'm luck and it's not in a growing period.

 

[coh]

1) buying any of the maples they had and going for a trunk chop
2) or buy online. ( which I'd probably only get a pencil thin trunk, or invest 75$+ for a further along specimen.)

Have you had any luck with online retailers?

As with most things, there are good online retailers, and not so good online retailers. But in any case, if you are going to look for a tree that is further along, you'll be paying for both time and expertise of the grower. You can find maples that are desirable cultivars for bonsai, and have been grown from cuttings with decent root systems (along with preliminary branch pruning/development), for $75 or so. But those will be small trunked, probably <= 1 inch at the base. If you are a facebook user, there are several auction type groups where people sell that kind of material (and a lot of other stuff, including very expensive or collected trees).

Another good option to get material, if you have a bonsai club within reasonable distance - join it. Members sometimes sell trees that they no longer want at a deep discount. It may not be great stuff, but probably larger and will at least have had some training done along the way.

 

[ColinFraser]

Have you had any luck with online retailers?

I'm surrounded by nurseries and there's a thriving bonsai community in CA, so the only trees i've purchased online were seedlings for root grafting.

You could try asking your local nursery if they have "the species" or "from seed" or "plain ol' green maple" or some other phrase that might communicate to them that you are looking for a vigorous tree "on its own roots" (i.e. ungrafted).
Here's one I just grabbed at a local landscape nursery:
$35 Trunk
Every bit of foliage, except the tiny shoot at the bottom, will come off.

 

[M. Frary]

horrifically butcher a good tree?

One of the fun things. Cut 90%ff and toss it in the dirt.

 

[sorce]

Have you had any luck with online retailers?

I think someone recommended going to Natures Way in another thread.....

That trip alone.....will get you to a better "crazy" place!

@GGB Nice! I second and third that!

If I didn't have Walter Pall selected trees at the Hidden Gardens by me.....I would make a trip to Natures Way.

Natures Way.

Sorce

 

[rockm]

you are within a morning's drive of an EXCELLENT bonsai nursery.
http://www.natureswaybonsai.com/
It's worth going, even if you don't buy anything. It will open your eyes, especially if you talk with some of the people who work there, owner Jim Doyle in particular.

The maple you have pictured is a poor candidate for bonsai for a number of reasons. Long spaces between leaves and gawky branching are a couple of those reasons, but the biggest one is the ugly graft union on the trunk. That mismatched bark and bulge will only get worse as the tree ages. Since a bonsai relies on its trunk to set the visual stage for the rest of the tree, that bulge is a deal breaker for good bonsai material.

 

[Alain]

I understand the whole process of creating a wonderful bonsai is quite lengthy.

It is indeed.
But the 'choosing the tree' part could make it much faster.

You should always ask yourself what will be the tree 'finished' (well, it's never finish but a picture of what you want it to be).

For example with your japanese maple, for a single tree that is supposed to give that:

See you in 100 years

However if you want to do a Japanese maple forest:


Then the nebari doesn't have to be that nice and the trunks neither because the overall harmony is the result of a group planting so each individual tree could be much simpler.

In this case even a poor tree like the one you have on your picture, air-layered at the right spots, could give you the starting trees for your forest.

So before buying anything 'think tree' as Mr Miyagi would say

PS: Not my trees btw, found on the web.

 

[Lauren Shisler]

you are within a morning's drive of an EXCELLENT bonsai nursery.
http://www.natureswaybonsai.com/
It's worth going, even if you don't buy anything. It will open your eyes, especially if you talk with some of the people who work there, owner Jim Doyle in particular.

I have been looking it up, it's a shame all nurses close at 5, being a college student taking 15 credits means weekdays are not possible for me, as well as I work as a waitress on weekends from 7-4 ( though that may change soon )

It will be a few weeks but I might be able to manage getting into their may 14th bonsai 101 class.

 

[Lauren Shisler]

So before buying anything 'think tree' as Mr Miyagi would say

A short lived dream! But there's no problem with that. Maybe j. Maples not up my ally any time soon, but I did just acquire a Chinese elm and quince this after noon, maybe these will turn out a little bit better. (Though I'd feel some what embarrassed make a new thread each day, but there's just so many questions that I can't find answers for on Google!)

But thanks for the advice!

 

[Alain]

Though I'd feel some what embarrassed make a new thread each day, but there's just so many questions that I can't find answers for on Google!

That's not a problem as long as you don't keep asking the same question that has already been answered and is actually answered in numerous previous threads, books and websites

 

[whfarro]

Search this forum for previous threads on the trees or concerns you have. Also use the Resources section here as well. If you have specific questions, start a thread or post on an existing one with the same topic. We are all here to help you succeed, grow and enjoy Bonsai.