Limber Pine 3-4 Year-Old Needles Removal

[jonfromchicago]

I bought and repotted this Limber Pine in Spring. When would be the best time to pluck/remove the browning 3-4 year old needles on single flush pines? Some needles just fall off with little effort and some I have to pull a little bit for it to come off. Would it be fine to remove the needles now or wait till fall to remove the needles or just wait for them to fall off eventually? My main goal for this Limber Pine is to keep it alive, build vigor, and for it to back bud in the next 3-5 years before deciding to do further work on this Limber Pine.

 

[BrightsideB]

Pines aren’t to beginner friendly without a mentor or someone to help you. That tree is already ready to be refined it looks like. Which means proper yearly maintenance. If you just let it grow it will get out of control in a few years. The proper practices used usually induce some backbudding. But it won’t backbud by just letting it grow and fertilizing. You have to understand the relocation of energy which is done through proper pine care and technique. A lot of guys usually graft as well because getting it to backbud in the right place is pretty much impossible. I can’t give you advice on what to do because I am not that good with them. And lack the experience. But just letting you know that what you are trying to achieve by what you stated is something you’d do with a deciduous tree. Just letting it grow for years and years without any work done to them. To just gain vigor. I wish you luck with this tree. It looks really cool! But you may want to take some courses or find someone to help you with this tree. So you can understand pine care.

 

[sorce]

That looks like a lot of last years needles too.

Welcome to Crazy!

It doesn't seem like regular old needle shedding, which tends to just evenly yellow and fall off.

If those needles are so old, this thing has been growing poorly, upon closer inspection, or looks like it may have an infestation, or root problems.

Sorce

 

[Potawatomi13]

Nice tree you have. Two strong suggestions please: Spray tree with Daconyl then after 2 weeks with Copper fungicide. Looks much like you may have a problem. Also please, PLEASE get rid of false moss infestation you have in pot. This miserable invasive weed once established is exceedingly difficult to get rid of and re establishes with greatest enthusiasm if given smallest chance to regrow. Even juvenile plants produce seed. Personally have one P. flexilis very much in development. After growth hardened off this tree has minimal unneeded, shading twigs/branches removed or wired. Solar panels(needles)only removed after browning and no longer useful to tree. Personally do not remove useful needles unless on refined tree to show.

 

[Colorado]

But it won’t backbud by just letting it grow and fertilizing.

Actually, now that the tree is wired out and the branches exposed to plenty of sunlight, that is exactly how to get back budding on a pine!

@jonfromchicago I do not agree with the previous advice in this thread. I think you’ve got an awesome limber pine there and a good plan moving forward. Remember that limber pines need lots of sun and can be sensitive to overwatering (to an even greater extent than other pines).

The old needles that fall off with little to no force are fine to remove now. I tend to avoid removing any needles that still “want” to stay attached to the branch, especially on old yamadori like this.

I would not douse it in fungicide. It’s hard to tell from the photos definitively, but the new needles look totally fine to me.

I would clean out the old needles than come off easily, lots of organic fertilizer and sun for the rest of the year. Great tree!

 

[jonfromchicago]

Actually, now that the tree is wired out and the branches exposed to plenty of sunlight, that is exactly how to get back budding on a pine!

@jonfromchicago I do not agree with the previous advice in this thread. I think you’ve got an awesome limber pine there and a good plan moving forward. Remember that limber pines need lots of sun and can be sensitive to overwatering (to an even greater extent than other pines).

The old needles that fall off with little to no force are fine to remove now. I tend to avoid removing any needles that still “want” to stay attached to the branch, especially on old yamadori like this.

I would not douse it in fungicide. It’s hard to tell from the photos definitively, but the new needles look totally fine to me.

I would clean out the old needles than come off easily, lots of organic fertilizer and sun for the rest of the year. Great tree!

Thanks! This is sound advice I am looking for to read for proper maintenance on a Limber Pine at this time of the year. I didn't know what to do with the older needles and now I have a better idea of what to do when I come across a situation like this. All the new needles from this growing season seem to be all fine and no sign of browning tips or any type of infestation. I have been spraying daconyl once a month for preventative measures and have been looking out for signs of any infestations like needle cast or dothistroma. Hopefully, I can get this pine healthy and looking its best in the next 3-5 years.

 

[jonfromchicago]

That looks like a lot of last years needles too.

Welcome to Crazy!

It doesn't seem like regular old needle shedding, which tends to just evenly yellow and fall off.

If those needles are so old, this thing has been growing poorly, upon closer inspection, or looks like it may have an infestation, or root problems.

Sorce

Crazy indeed! It's always fun to learn about new species. I'm really hoping it's not any type of infestation and is just older needles dying off. I'll be closely monitoring this pine's new growth and seeing if it comes across any issues.

 

[jonfromchicago]

Nice tree you have. Two strong suggestions please: Spray tree with Daconyl then after 2 weeks with Copper fungicide. Looks much like you may have a problem. Also please, PLEASE get rid of false moss infestation you have in pot. This miserable invasive weed once established is exceedingly difficult to get rid of and re establishes with greatest enthusiasm if given smallest chance to regrow. Even juvenile plants produce seed. Personally have one P. flexilis very much in development. After growth hardened off this tree has minimal unneeded, shading twigs/branches removed or wired. Solar panels(needles)only removed after browning and no longer useful to tree. Personally do not remove useful needles unless on refined tree to show.

Thanks for the suggestions! I have been spraying daconyl once a month for preventive measures. Though, I will hold off on spraying more fungicides once a month. All the new growth this year seems to be healthy and if there are any signs of infestation such as needle cast or dothistroma on the new growth, then I will have to spray daconyl and a copper fungicide like you had suggested.

Were you talking about removing the sphagnum moss that's now turning green on the overall photo of the pine from the first two photos or the weeds in the close-ups of the pines needles from the rest of the images? If it's the latter, I had moved my Limber Pine elsewhere to a different spot where it gets a lot more sun but the surrounding area has lots of weeds growing around it and I just got them in the photos in the background and I have since removed them now that I am using the spot for my Pine trees.

 

[sorce]

type of infestation

It's hard to tell from the photos but the little white spots concern me. Almost looks like sawfly egglaid spots in the needles.

Good for not spraying it anymore.

You can go months spraying for nothing just making problems worse.

Better to locate the cause.

If that is Irish moss on the top, there's a good chance you're not getting any water to the tree itself.

Better pics!

Sorce

 

[Potawatomi13]

Were you talking about removing the sphagnum moss that's now turning green on the overall photo of the pine from the first two photos or the weeds in the close-ups of the pines needles from the rest of the images? If it's the latter, I had moved my Limber Pine elsewhere to a different spot where it gets a lot more sun but the surrounding area has lots of weeds growing around it and I just got them in the photos in the background and I have since removed them now that I am using the spot for my Pine trees.

Referring to what grows in the pot. From what can be seen looks/looked like false moss. If very small white flowers grow on it you have trouble.

 

[chicago1980]

I bought and repotted this Limber Pine in Spring. When would be the best time to pluck/remove the browning 3-4 year old needles on single flush pines? Some needles just fall off with little effort and some I have to pull a little bit for it to come off. Would it be fine to remove the needles now or wait till fall to remove the needles or just wait for them to fall off eventually? My main goal for this Limber Pine is to keep it alive, build vigor, and for it to back bud in the next 3-5 years before deciding to do further work on this Limber Pine.

How does this Limber Pine look today?

When did yo repot and style this Limber pine?

Nicely done,

 

[chicago1980]

looks like the 3rd year needles are falling off and the tree was pulling the magnesium out of the old needles too.

Did the tree push lots of buds this year?

 

[Shogun610]

You gotta remove that moss on the top , there’s no percolation. Even misting the foliage gets rid of egg infestation as a primary mode of proactive defense.

 

[Potawatomi13]

You gotta remove that moss on the top , there’s no percolation. Even misting the foliage gets rid of egg infestation as a primary mode of proactive defense.

Baloney! Damp(true)moss helps retain/draw in moisture. Good if needed, not so if too wet. How does spraying tree with H2O kill bug eggs?

 

[Potawatomi13]

Seconded how looks tree today?

 

[Shogun610]

Baloney! Damp(true)moss helps retain/draw in moisture. Good if needed, not so if too wet. How does spraying tree with H2O kill bug eggs?

Yeah not the fake moss brah like can’t you clearly see it’s anaerobic turning algae greeen ??? … spraying needles physically removes debri from them like insects and eggs

 

[August44]

… spraying needles physically removes debri from them like insects and eggs

What are you smokin? So if you spray the plant with a real blast and happen to blow off a few bugs and maybe an egg or two, where do they get blown to? Probably on the trees next to it or somewhere close or maybe on the ground in the vicinity of the garden. You must have way more time on you hand than I do. If you're going to spray, spray with something that will be effective in getting rid of the problem. Just MO of course

 

[Shogun610]

What are you smokin? So if you spray the plant with a real blast and happen to blow off a few bugs and maybe an egg or two, where do they get blown to? Probably on the trees next to it or somewhere close or maybe on the ground in the vicinity of the garden. You must have way more time on you hand than I do. If you're going to spray, spray with something that will be effective in getting rid of the problem. Just MO of course

……lol I work full time and tend to my trees for a hour w my dog every day after work. Checking on things and taking it in… I don’t smoke weed. I quit that 2 years ago because right didn’t need to do that anymore.
I said that as a preventative to spray needles… I’ve heard Bjorn and Neil talk about spraying foliage on evergreens… if I ever did see a issue I used neem oil for mites or aphids and it’s worked fine. I’d rather keep a tree healthy , try less invasive methods before I use synthetic chemicals. As far as the issues on this dudes tree , I’d take it as removing the fake moss because it’s anaerobic green algae color , so removing that would allow more percolation and less opportunities to lead to root rot.

 

[jonfromchicago]

How does this Limber Pine look today?

When did yo repot and style this Limber pine?

Nicely done,

Hey Chicago1980, this is how the Limber is doing today. This was styled by Mark at Hidden Gardens back in 2019 and repotted this year in Spring 2021. I removed the third-year needles from last year which were the ones I originally posted during the summer and I recently just removed the third-year needles from this year last weekend.

Seconded how looks tree today?

 

[jonfromchicago]

looks like the 3rd year needles are falling off and the tree was pulling the magnesium out of the old needles too.

Did the tree push lots of buds this year?

Yup! The limber had lots of back budding this year.