Kotohime
- Thread starter JonW
- Start date
Hack Yeah!
Omono
Nice start
JonW
Shohin
JonW
Shohin
Might do something like this...
Or just use one of these two sides, possibly shortening it...
Or just use one of these two sides, possibly shortening it...
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DonovanC
Chumono
At this point, I would chose the front based onthe nebari, which to my eye looks best here:
Nice tree! I actually just got a wee little Kotohime cutting yesterday, I’m excited to work with it!
Nice tree! I actually just got a wee little Kotohime cutting yesterday, I’m excited to work with it!
JonW
Shohin
I'm leaning toward that as well. It's such a dwarf variety that the straight parts of the trunk look very straight in photos but less so in person.
I need to wire out guy wire some of the side branches and remove one or two that are eye pokers or bar branches, but that depends on the front I pick.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
its a bit tricky to say with the leaves on, if it was in front of me maybe id have a better idea, but knowing me i would likely take it in harder than your red lines.
thats the thing though, everyone will have different ideas on how hard to take a tree back, ive seen trees where it was just left as it is with many straight taper less limbs and the owner was happy with it
then another guy might say well air layer the crap out of this and get 10 free trees
then there is the other guy who wants to make an informal bonsai out of it and only focuses on making a bonsai trunk line, he ignores sub trunks and heavily focuses on taper. then there is the broom guy who likes sub trunks and has a few different ideas, this guy likes informal bonsai trunks too
the question is which guy are you?
ive never been one to ask for much help myself, i do my research then go ahead with my ideas and plans, imo if you chop at the reds, the proportions wont be right but thats something you can judge yourself by comparing your tree to other better trees.
thats the thing though, everyone will have different ideas on how hard to take a tree back, ive seen trees where it was just left as it is with many straight taper less limbs and the owner was happy with it
then another guy might say well air layer the crap out of this and get 10 free trees
then there is the other guy who wants to make an informal bonsai out of it and only focuses on making a bonsai trunk line, he ignores sub trunks and heavily focuses on taper. then there is the broom guy who likes sub trunks and has a few different ideas, this guy likes informal bonsai trunks too
the question is which guy are you?
ive never been one to ask for much help myself, i do my research then go ahead with my ideas and plans, imo if you chop at the reds, the proportions wont be right but thats something you can judge yourself by comparing your tree to other better trees.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Heres one i passed on to Conor, started out like yours, did you see this thread?
www.bonsainut.com
as you can see, i achieved subtle taper in an informal trunk, great movement. the tree will never have GREAT taper, but to my eye the proportions look about right.
there is a few more of these which i might go n get when the sale is on. similar to yours but i may go a bit broomy with them, you will see why.
Acer Koto Hime development
This is a recent garden centre purchase, i was drawn to the tree by the trunk movement, trunk line options, root flare, leaf size.... ive seen some stunning examples, although this variety isnt very common. i think it could be very nice in a few years. ive also read this dwarf variety has an...
as you can see, i achieved subtle taper in an informal trunk, great movement. the tree will never have GREAT taper, but to my eye the proportions look about right.
there is a few more of these which i might go n get when the sale is on. similar to yours but i may go a bit broomy with them, you will see why.
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Johnnyd
Shohin
I would remove the thick straight ish trunks in early spring and keep the one with the most movement and taper.
They air layer easily fyi. Since Kotohime are prone to taperless trunks you need to chop for taper if that is what you want.
I have one I've been working. During the growing season I pick the next section and leave that bud to grow while removing all the others. Bud removal is a large part of directing energy to the next section.
They air layer easily fyi. Since Kotohime are prone to taperless trunks you need to chop for taper if that is what you want.
I have one I've been working. During the growing season I pick the next section and leave that bud to grow while removing all the others. Bud removal is a large part of directing energy to the next section.
Attachments
JonW
Shohin
I'm always open to more ideas - someone else will see something I won't and occasionally that influences my choices. I tend toward informal upright trees, I grew up with a lot of large red oaks, one in particular that appeared to have low branching though the branches were probably 12-feet high, the tree was just so massive it appeared to be low on the trunk. I tend to like a low first branch I think due to always appreciating that tree. Considering that, I agree that if I have the courage, chopping back harder at least on the secondary trunks might make sense in order to highlight a primary trunk. However, I also try to challenge myself to see different options and take different approaches: like many maples, this has multiple trunks - I've been considering trying to highlight the main trunk without removing the secondary or tertiary trunks. I also have a kiyohime, and I know the "leaderless" habit will be a challenge to the way I typically shape my trees.its a bit tricky to say with the leaves on, if it was in front of me maybe id have a better idea, but knowing me i would likely take it in harder than your red lines.
thats the thing though, everyone will have different ideas on how hard to take a tree back, ive seen trees where it was just left as it is with many straight taper less limbs and the owner was happy with it
then another guy might say well air layer the crap out of this and get 10 free trees
then there is the other guy who wants to make an informal bonsai out of it and only focuses on making a bonsai trunk line, he ignores sub trunks and heavily focuses on taper. then there is the broom guy who likes sub trunks and has a few different ideas, this guy likes informal bonsai trunks too
the question is which guy are you?
ive never been one to ask for much help myself, i do my research then go ahead with my ideas and plans, imo if you chop at the reds, the proportions wont be right but thats something you can judge yourself by comparing your tree to other better trees.
JonW
Shohin
I have seen this. It was a great find - hard to find maples with a decent graft especially at a typical nursery. I tend to look for non-grafted for that reason. You did go a good job with subtle tape and, even more-so, movement. See, I ask this question because I wouldn't have made the same choice in narrowing down a trunk line in that manner, but it worked well for you (and Connor).Heres one i passed on to Conor, started out like yours, did you see this thread?
Acer Koto Hime development
This is a recent garden centre purchase, i was drawn to the tree by the trunk movement, trunk line options, root flare, leaf size.... ive seen some stunning examples, although this variety isnt very common. i think it could be very nice in a few years. ive also read this dwarf variety has an...
as you can see, i achieved subtle taper in an informal trunk, great movement. the tree will never have GREAT taper, but to my eye the proportions look about right.
there is a few more of these which i might go n get when the sale is on. similar to yours but i may go a bit broomy with them, you will see why.
I'm not a big fan of the broom style, but if I go with (or stick to) that style, I'm ok with a shin hokidachi (trunks starting at different points), I just don't really like the typical hokidachi where all the trunks comes from a single spot.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
see thats another thing, on my trees i like branches coming from the front. because trees in nature have branches from every angle and i want my bonsai to look like a tree, so some guidlines i take with a pinch of salt. i dont want to create a tree with a bare front that you can see right in that also looks flat as a pancake from the side because i followed all the rules. thats my take on it
if i find the branch coming from the front a little obtrusive i will never remove it, but i will position it so it becomes less offensive but still does the job of obscuring the tree from the front.
JonW
Shohin
Interesting - I wouldn't have thought of that. Certainly would result in a lot of movement.
Do you chop in the spring? I worry about bleeding, so I was leaning toward chopping in the fall or after leaves harden in summer.
JonW
Shohin
Its definitely something to take with a grain of salt, or moderation. I use to remove most of the branches going toward the front until just about the apex, which I agree looks unnatural. I try to avoid having the first or second branch going straight toward the front though. I guess in other words, I still look for a somewhat traditional front with the left/right and back branches before anything obscures the trunk line.
Kanorin
Omono
Nice tree - I see some potential here going a few different directions. What is the caliper of the trunk and what is your desired final height?
Regarding trunk chops, I've heard several people say fall is a bad time (at least in my climate and we are in the same USDA zone) to chop maples. If you chop in early fall you risk the tree throwing out lots of new growth that might not harden off before the first frost. And if you chop in late fall you risk poor wound closure and dieback due to the tree trying to enter it's dormancy.
I have a little kotohime seedling that I'm growing in the ground. Mine seems to want to be a broom in it's young life. It's got about 8-9 main branches of about the same thickness with no clear leader. I wonder if this a characteristic of this cultivar. I might make mine into a little shohin informal broom eventually.
Regarding trunk chops, I've heard several people say fall is a bad time (at least in my climate and we are in the same USDA zone) to chop maples. If you chop in early fall you risk the tree throwing out lots of new growth that might not harden off before the first frost. And if you chop in late fall you risk poor wound closure and dieback due to the tree trying to enter it's dormancy.
I have a little kotohime seedling that I'm growing in the ground. Mine seems to want to be a broom in it's young life. It's got about 8-9 main branches of about the same thickness with no clear leader. I wonder if this a characteristic of this cultivar. I might make mine into a little shohin informal broom eventually.
Johnnyd
Shohin
Late February to early March. But it depends on the climate. There is some debate about whether bleeding affects your plants vigor. I don't think it's an issue. I used to live in NJ and that was what the senior bonsai people recommended in our area. But definitely leave some room for dieback and protect from frost. Aftercare is important.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
whats your reason for that?
do you mean it wouldnt have been your cup of tea or you just wouldnt go that far or envision that direction.
i see something similar here, but again its hard to judge if the tree is leaning back etc
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JonW
Shohin
The latter, I don't know that I would have envisioned that direction. I think I would have thought to shorten the top, and leave more of the branches, even if I picked the same trunk line. I do like the outcomes you had though.
I agree that I could see something similar. However, maybe from the other side - better roots (IMO), and more likely not to lean away. Then I'd have to decide which branches to keep and remove (or chop back) - as I said about your tree, I'd have a tendency to leave longer branches or secondary trunks, but that might be a hesitancy to chop more than a choice with long-term vision in mind. This is the same main trunk line from the other side of the tree, which is the same idea I posted above with the red lines marking where to cut, but I left much more in terms of branching/secondary trunk than you did on the tree you posted a link to:
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LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
koto's are great fun....enjoy yours and the journey ahead!
JonW
Shohin
Wow, that looks great. Nice movement, and great branch placement on the outside of each bend.koto's are great fun....enjoy yours and the journey ahead!
What type of soil is that? Looks like turface.
