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[mattspinniken]

Larch are apically and terminally dominant and suppress inner bud extension. Once terminal buds are formed growth stops. Trimming allows for inner bud extension and multiple flushes of growth.

I agree 100% with this.

I've never had that work very well with larch. They don't respond well to that. Foliage thickens them.

I appreciate your help as you have alot more years into growing Larch than me so help me understand why on this comment. Is it not true that if you leave a larch growing without pruning it will thicken faster? I have a Larch that I planted as a 10'' tree growing in the ground that 2 years later is over 10ft tall and has put on almost 2'' of trunk thickness. I have a similar sized Larch collected 4 years ago that I have kept pruned and is basically the same trunk size. Do you suggest that pruning every inch and encouraging bifurcation in the branching Larch will thicken quicker?

 

[twisted trees]

I agree 100% with this.


I appreciate your help as you have alot more years into growing Larch than me so help me understand why on this comment. Is it not true that if you leave a larch growing without pruning it will thicken faster? I have a Larch that I planted as a 10'' tree growing in the ground that 2 years later is over 10ft tall and has put on almost 2'' of trunk thickness. I have a similar sized Larch collected 4 years ago that I have kept pruned and is basically the same trunk size. Do you suggest that pruning every inch and encouraging bifurcation in the branching Larch will thicken quicker?

Your speaking of total trunk thickening and yes, sacrificial trunks do fatten larch. This is done in stages. Let it grow cut it back. Raise a branch. Repeat.

For some reason sacrificial branches don't have the same effect unless they have ramifications and plentiful foliage.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Your speaking of total trunk thickening and yes, sacrificial trunks do fatten larch. This is done in stages. Let it grow cut it back. Raise a branch. Repeat.

For some reason sacrificial branches don't have the same effect unless they have ramifications and plentiful foliage.

Hi Twisted trees,
Raise a branch? Newbie here. Does this mean you use a branch as your new VERTICAL trunk for the next few (2-3?) years?
Thanks, Charles

 

[twisted trees]

Hi Twisted trees,
Raise a branch? Newbie here. Does this mean you use a branch as your new VERTICAL trunk for the next few (2-3?) years?
Thanks, Charles

That's right.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Hi Twisted trees,
Raise a branch? Newbie here. Does this mean you use a branch as your new VERTICAL trunk for the next few (2-3?) years?
Thanks, Charles

This is a technique that if you haven't seen it done, might be hard to picture. You don't raise the terminal of a branch by bending it upwards at the point it attaches to the trunk. Rather the branch extends horizontal or out at the same angle other branches leave the trunk, extends out far enough that it is past the length of other branches. Then you bend the last few centimeters up, to point the terminal bud towards the sky. You do this so that the sacrifice branch does not shade out or interfere the branches you are planning on keeping and developing. Makes sense?

This is not a replacement trunk, this is a sacrifice low in the tree designed to help build taper.

 

[twisted trees]

This is a technique that if you haven't seen it done, might be hard to picture. You don't raise the terminal of a branch by bending it upwards at the point it attaches to the trunk. Rather the branch extends horizontal or out at the same angle other branches leave the trunk, extends out far enough that it is past the length of other branches. Then you bend the last few centimeters up, to point the terminal bud towards the sky. You do this so that the sacrifice branch does not shade out or interfere the branches you are planning on keeping and developing. Makes sense?

We are not talking about sacrificial branches but sacrificial trunks.

 

[0soyoung]

Personally, I think that heavy lower branch is the most interesting feature of this tree.

 

[chicago1980]

This may be a novice question, but how do old, aged, larch trees look in nature?

 

[mattspinniken]

This may be a novice question, but how do old, aged, larch trees look in nature?

This is the question

 

[twisted trees]

This may be a novice question, but how do old, aged, larch trees look in nature?

Like tall, thin, elegant Christmas trees.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

This is a technique that if you haven't seen it done, might be hard to picture. You don't raise the terminal of a branch by bending it upwards at the point it attaches to the trunk. Rather the branch extends horizontal or out at the same angle other branches leave the trunk, extends out far enough that it is past the length of other branches. Then you bend the last few centimeters up, to point the terminal bud towards the sky. You do this so that the sacrifice branch does not shade out or interfere the branches you are planning on keeping and developing. Makes sense?

This is not a replacement trunk, this is a sacrifice low in the tree designed to help build taper.

Hi Leo,
I can how the sacrifice branch works, so yes makes sense.
What now confuses me is that I have 2 ways of building trunk girth/taper. Or is taper different to girth?
Although @twisted trees disagrees re branches can increase girth.

So can one or both of you answer this question? - when would you use a sacrifice branch?
And when would you use a sacrifice trunk section ( branch up vertical as new trunk) ?
I know it is talked about heaps with pines, just didn't realise that this is a common practice for most Bonsai ?!?
Charles.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Hi @mattspiniken,
Sorry for asking questions on your thread?
I can/will start a new thread if there is a problem.
Charles

 

[twisted trees]

Hi Leo,
I can how the sacrifice branch works, so yes makes sense.
What now confuses me is that I have 2 ways of building trunk girth/taper. Or is taper different to girth?
Although @twisted trees disagrees re branches can increase girth.

So can one or both of you answer this question? - when would you use a sacrifice branch?
And when would you use a sacrifice trunk section ( branch up vertical as new trunk) ?
I know it is talked about heaps with pines, just didn't realise that this is a common practice for most Bonsai ?!?
Charles.

Generally speaking sacrificial branches work just not on larch. The only time I use sacrificial branches are to increase foliage density. This increases root mass and will help thicken trunks on larch.

Letting larch branches run long, though, only increases the very end of the branches and stunts bud lengthening behind it. Over time, these inner buds which open in the spring then form a terminal bud, will lengthen to form spurs. These long branches with spurs produce sparse foliage.

Also, trimming shoots before the form terminal buds allows for more flushes of growth for the whole season with larch.

 

[mattspinniken]

Generally speaking sacrificial branches work just not on larch. The only time I use sacrificial branches are to increase foliage density. This increases root mass and will help thicken trunks on larch.

Letting larch branches run long, though, only increases the very end of the branches and stunts bud lengthening behind it. Over time, these inner buds which open in the spring then form a terminal bud, will lengthen to form spurs. These long branches with spurs produce sparse foliage.

Also, trimming shoots before the form terminal buds allows for more flushes of growth for the whole season with larch.

Sorry @twisted trees its hard for me to get my head around pruning more to make the trunk grow faster. Maybe those second and third flushes of growth that are encouraged when pruning is why it works. In the case of this sacrifice branch I am not concerned with keeping the interior buds because it is the lowest branch and will be removed. I was picturing a 7' long branch sticking out for a few years with a few extra inches of trunk growth below it.

Also, I have a question about a seperate Larch subject if you don't mind. I've had some success grafting Larch but I have not tried root grafting to improve surface roots. Have you tried this @twisted trees ? Any tips?

 

[mattspinniken]

This may be a novice question, but how do old, aged, larch trees look in nature?

Its hard to find much beyond telephone pole straight Larch growing at least around here in Michigan. Sometimes I think that trying to get unique Larch is sort of pointless because a simple design like the pic below really works well. I still look though. This North Carolina Arboretum Larch is a good example of a miniaturized Larch that represents what Larch look like in the wild.

 

[mattspinniken]

playing around...

 

[Gene Deci]

playing around...
View attachment 171237

Yeah, that is probably best. I might reduce the one big root. I think you deserve credit for where it is now compared to where you started though. Nice work.

 

[mattspinniken]

Yeah, that is probably best. I might reduce the one big root. I think you deserve credit for where it is now compared to where you started though. Nice work.

Thanks, do you remember repotting this one with me? We repotted it at your place. We both wondered if it would survive the repotting because for some reason it hardly had any roots, its strong now.

If I could do this tree over I would do things differently but its all just for fun anyway.

 

[M. Frary]

Its hard to find much beyond telephone pole straight Larch growing at least around here in Michigan

I've looked at hundreds last year. I found 3 with curvy trunks to collect in spring. They aren't old or huge but I can't let them stay. They're slated for herbicide spraying next year.

 

[twisted trees]

Sorry @twisted trees its hard for me to get my head around pruning more to make the trunk grow faster. Maybe those second and third flushes of growth that are encouraged when pruning is why it works. In the case of this sacrifice branch I am not concerned with keeping the interior buds because it is the lowest branch and will be removed. I was picturing a 7' long branch sticking out for a few years with a few extra inches of trunk growth below it.

Also, I have a question about a seperate Larch subject if you don't mind. I've had some success grafting Larch but I have not tried root grafting to improve surface roots. Have you tried this @twisted trees ? Any tips?

How many years are you expecting to grow a sacrificial branch 7' long?