Juniper Foliage Colour Changing?

[Tntthunder]

My junipers are turning this lighter colour. They're Chinese juniper "Blaaws", is this normal now that we are comingi into late summer/autumn? Last year they didn't change colour all winter and were a deep green, same with all this year but now they're changing to this light bluey/green colour.

I have changed the fertiliser, I went from a chicken manure pellet 6-2-2 to a synthetic slow release granular with all the micro nutrients that is 9-4-12

Could this be the reason or something else? They feel quite healthy otherwise.

The green of the new growth was basically my whole tree colour. I have two junipers and they're both doing the same thing.

 

[pandacular]

I'm no vet and am colorblind to boot, but I was under the impression that that blue-gray color was one of the identifying characteristics of Blaaw. When my junipers are fertilized heavily, they do tend to get a bit bluer (I seem to recall this being mentioned as a sign of health?).

I wouldn't be worried about it, it looks quite nice!

 

[Tntthunder]

I'm no vet and am colorblind to boot, but I was under the impression that that blue-gray color was one of the identifying characteristics of Blaaw. When my junipers are fertilized heavily, they do tend to get a bit bluer (I seem to recall this being mentioned as a sign of health?).

I wouldn't be worried about it, it looks quite nice!

Awesome, I heard that too but I have terrible eyes and thought it was a bit blue before haha. Thought something might have been up. Thanks mate.

 

[Japonicus]

Blaauw
It is an archaic spelling of modern Dutch blauw, meaning blue.
I think of Blaupunkt stereo equipment. Means blue point.
Seeing how young yours is, this colouration change is just maturing.

Early Fall get some wire on it and movement set in.
I would suggest #12 annealed copper wire, or a little bigger aluminum
wired at about 60º coils.
Push a wire about 25-30% longer than the juniper is tall, to bottom of pot.
Pinch the wire against the base of the trunk with one hand, and grasp the end of the wire
with your dominant hand and gently spiral evenly up the trunk.
You will have to stop and use a pencil or point to gently move foliage out from underneath
the path of the wire as you go, before the wire pins it down overworking it.
Overworking it = dead foliage there soon.
Then begin as low as you can safely bend the trunk, and alternate bends as you move upwards.
Try some twisting a few degrees in the direction of the wires spiral as you go.
Next year, the wire should begin to bite in. Remove it when this occurs and allow it to grow
untouched next year, fertilising weekly.
A picture of the pot and soil may be helpful. Could be it needs repotting come Spring 2024 into bonsai soil.

 

[Tntthunder]

Blaauw
It is an archaic spelling of modern Dutch blauw, meaning blue.
I think of Blaupunkt stereo equipment. Means blue point.
Seeing how young yours is, this colouration change is just maturing.

Early Fall get some wire on it and movement set in.
I would suggest #12 annealed copper wire, or a little bigger aluminum
wired at about 60º coils.
Push a wire about 25-30% longer than the juniper is tall, to bottom of pot.
Pinch the wire against the base of the trunk with one hand, and grasp the end of the wire
with your dominant hand and gently spiral evenly up the trunk.
You will have to stop and use a pencil or point to gently move foliage out from underneath
the path of the wire as you go, before the wire pins it down overworking it.
Overworking it = dead foliage there soon.
Then begin as low as you can safely bend the trunk, and alternate bends as you move upwards.
Try some twisting a few degrees in the direction of the wires spiral as you go.
Next year, the wire should begin to bite in. Remove it when this occurs and allow it to grow
untouched next year, fertilising weekly.
A picture of the pot and soil may be helpful. Could be it needs repotting come Spring 2024 into bonsai soil.

Thank you! I really appreciate the explaination and the advice, I guess I didn't expect it to be so Blue as it is.

I also appreciate the advice also, I feel my wiring is getting fairly decent, my biggest issue however is bending. I try and bend in the direction of the wire but how can you get movement back and forth with crazy twists and turns without the wire loosening?

Am I meant to bend the and twist the branch? Am I bending the wire? etc. Just wanting to keep my wire neat and tight but I can't seem to manage it.

As for early fall, I am originally from a nation without multiple seasons, Now I live in Finland (Zone 5b-6a) in my area and am trying to learn still, I see it says you're also from zone 6 and was wondering if you could possibly give me a time period of when "early" fall is. Days are getting cooler but still have a few warm days, lots of rain now also but not trees turning colour yet. Would now be a good time or would a bit further into September be good?

 

[Tntthunder]

Also, when using two branches to wire, you go between the fork for both branches, if you're ment to bend the way you wire how can you bend two branches the same way if the wire is going opposite? Same with wiring to bend up or down

 

[Japonicus]

how can you get movement back and forth with crazy twists and turns without the wire loosening?

Twisting in the opposite direction the wire is coiled in will loosen it

Try some twisting a few degrees in the direction of the wires spiral as you go.

Am I meant to bend the and twist the branch? Am I bending the wire?

So the twisting I was talking about was for the main trunk.
Branches, your branches are not long enough to practice on, and young enough
that wiring would be counter productive anyway, unless your wiring skills are quite on point.
Let them lengthen and lignify more. Too risky now.

When is Fall? Get a couple of hard frosts, it will be Fall. Generally October here for me.
Ask an elderly neighbor friend or Google when your 1st frosts typically occur.

Also, when using two branches to wire, you go between the fork for both branches, if you're ment to bend the way you wire how can you bend two branches the same way if the wire is going opposite? Same with wiring to bend up or down

Not always do you share the same fork for 2 branches with wire. I may be misunderstanding that though so just ignore
if it doesn't make sense, and watch the videos I link you to at Craftsy. If this is the case, you will grab onto a different branch
that needs wiring and can tolerate the wire in the opposite direction...or, use 1 wire with 3 good wraps around the trunk
to secure. I find that wording for wiring can be easily misunderstood, or difficult to convey, and suggest to begin
with aluminum wire on similar foliage from another shrub or tree. Even cutting a few branches off of a shrub that could
use a clipping. It's good practice material, and often times, you'll be able to nudge foliage away from, between the wire to branch
contact point as you go. Just know that a little crush, can kill the attached foliage which you won't see on clipped practice
material.

Bonsai Wiring Essentials

Uncover professional secrets to wiring better, faster and more accurately in this FREE mini-class, and develop beautiful bonsai trees!

www.craftsy.com

Play these over and over again. It is a free tutorial. If you join and add it to your cart, still free, you can bookmark
and make your own personal comments/notes in the timeline, flagging points that you will need.
This helps you to find a particular spot in a video on the fly without having to watch the entire video, once you find
the right video. Pretty cool and well demonstrated. I like his teaching technique. You will too.

 

[Japonicus]

Here is a picture of one of Adair Martins JWP's branches wired.



A crossing or two, and a few loose coils, but this is how to LAY wire on a branch.
A trunk will be ultimately easier. Too much of a twist may cause the cambium layer
to separate killing the branch, or the rest of the trunk above the twist, so try not to
go more than 360º twist from the ground to the apex at your 1st go of it.
More than 180, less than 360º should be safe. You'll have to go by muscle memory
once you're familiar with the limits. Familiarity comes through mistakes.
There are several folks on here showing their shimpaku twisted and crushed down
to make it shorter and much more gnarly looking. You are coming up on the best window of time
to do so, but be sure to have a couple to several hard frosts under your belt weather wise 1st.
The next window will be next Fall, which will be more challenging as the trunk will be thicker.

The gray portion of the trunk you'll bend less. More of a gentle bend to set the direction of the trunk.
Do not attempt to twist the base, gray trunk.
The brown part will accept more bending and twisting. The green part even more, yet it is prone to over working.
If you're right handed spiral the wire and the trunk clockwise as you look down on it.
With practice, you'll spiral it either direction.

 

[Tntthunder]

Here is a picture of one of Adair Martins JWP's branches wired.
View attachment 505324


A crossing or two, and a few loose coils, but this is how to LAY wire on a branch.
A trunk will be ultimately easier. Too much of a twist may cause the cambium layer
to separate killing the branch, or the rest of the trunk above the twist, so try not to
go more than 360º twist from the ground to the apex at your 1st go of it.
More than 180, less than 360º should be safe. You'll have to go by muscle memory
once you're familiar with the limits. Familiarity comes through mistakes.
There are several folks on here showing their shimpaku twisted and crushed down
to make it shorter and much more gnarly looking. You are coming up on the best window of time
to do so, but be sure to have a couple to several hard frosts under your belt weather wise 1st.
The next window will be next Fall, which will be more challenging as the trunk will be thicker.

The gray portion of the trunk you'll bend less. More of a gentle bend to set the direction of the trunk.
Do not attempt to twist the base, gray trunk.
The brown part will accept more bending and twisting. The green part even more, yet it is prone to over working.
If you're right handed spiral the wire and the trunk clockwise as you look down on it.
With practice, you'll spiral it either direction.

Thank you for all the awesome advice, it has really helped me understand a few things and I am sorry for all the questions but I have a couple more if you wouldn't mind.

First is there a particular reason to wait for a few frosts? To make sure the tree is dormant or something else?

Also, when you say spiral clockwise when you look down on it, do you mean like in my original picture with the branch/trunk coming towards me, or another way?

 

[Japonicus]

Thank you for all the awesome advice, it has really helped me understand a few things and I am sorry for all the questions but I have a couple more if you wouldn't mind.

First is there a particular reason to wait for a few frosts? To make sure the tree is dormant or something else?

Also, when you say spiral clockwise when you look down on it, do you mean like in my original picture with the branch/trunk coming towards me, or another way?

Yes, frost is coming around the time ragweed and golden rod is starting to fizzle out.
At least hard frosts certainly drop the pollen count signaling a change in the season.
Days are getting shorter, which also plays into the signals the weed knows to finish for the year.
This is when sap flow is diminishing. Once the sap has slowed a bit more it is safer for the cambium
to wood bond to handle more bending. Otherwise you risk separating the life from the foliage too much.

Clockwise, as you are looking down at the tree, as if it were on the ground below your eye level.
Spiral the wire the same direction the clock hands move if you are right handed
while you are learning to wire.
Conversely, if you're left handed, counterclockwise would be easier to learn.
Once you are wiring in a way that most foliage survives your learning curve, it doesn't matter
which direction you wire at this point in the life of this particular juniper.
There are times that it will matter, and that will be evident when you get there.
In the meantime, watch those videos, and practice on a branch from a nearby tree.
Deciduous trees would not be good to get a feel of bending though.
Still, they're viable subjects to learn how to apply wire neatly and correctly.
Once a tree is wired out, if done well, the wire is sort of incognito.
The tree does not stand out as a caged animal.

Here is my 2019 wiring job (photos taken 6/2020) on my JWP. All this guy wires and 45º spirals
and using wire a bit too small perhaps, makes the wire stand out.
When I posted these pics Adair Martin chimed in with his JWP shown above
to show me how better to wire using properly sized wire and closer to 60º spirals where possible.

 

[pmalelis]

Awesome, I heard that too but I have terrible eyes and thought it was a bit blue before haha. Thought something might have been up. Thanks mate.

I've done research on this. Blaauw is actually the name of the horticulturalist J Blaauw who brought the specimen to the Netherlands FROM JAPAN over 100 years ago it was a natural variety of Japan. In DNA analysis it is closer to shimpaku than other varieties. The blue does give way to green with great age plus being stunted in a pot over time. So it will become way more subtle.

 

[Michael P]

In DNA analysis it is closer to shimpaku than other varieties.

Could you give more information on this, or a link? I have been confused about the relationship of all these cultivars of J. chinensis. Perhaps this deserves its own thread, rather than hijacking this one. Thanks!

 

[pmalelis]

Could you give more information on this, or a link? I have been confused about the relationship of all these cultivars of J. chinensis. Perhaps this deserves its own thread, rather than hijacking this one. Thanks!

https://www.phytologia.org/uploads/2/3/4/2/23422706/102_3_106-115adams_et_al._windsor_j_chinensis_cultivars_cp_and_its_datafinal7-14-20wkr.pdf

"In contrast, group 5 (salmon) contains 4 diploids (chinensis var. sargentii Glauca, Pfitzer Blaauw,
Pfitzer Shimpaku, and Pfitzer Globose Cinerea), all have J. chinensis ITS, but each has J. tsukusiensis
(sometimes treated as J. chinensis var. tsukusiensis, Adams 2014) chloroplasts. The use of Pfitzer as part
of the cultivar name is confusing, as xpfitzeriana is tetraploid and of hybrid origin from J. sabina x J.
chinensis"

pfitzer has been misapplied to these over time it seems

Lots of science Jargon but looks like Blaauw Shimpaku and Sargentii Glauca are closer to each other with diploid chromosome structure, decendant from chenensis and tsukusiensis with probable mutations along the way. Yes I just responded to this thread due to color change towards green is normal after time in Blaauw. My apologies for Hijack

 

[Michael P]

Thanks! I skimmed the article, much of it over my head. My particular interest is the degree of relationship between J. c."Shimpaku' and "Sargenti', and are they cultivars or subspecies.

 

[pmalelis]

Thanks! I skimmed the article, much of it over my head. My particular interest is the degree of relationship between J. c."Shimpaku' and "Sargenti', and are they cultivars or subspecies.

I guess that's what makes the history so interesting. Many of these have been mis identified , mis labeled for years then in top of that had new cultivar labels attached. Tracing back documented history helps reveal lots of it. Cool stuff