JBP Variety Question

[Hyn Patty]

So, I'm not ready to get a JBP yet, but I was looking around to see what options there may be when shopping for trees in person at local nurseries. I'd like to try one maybe in the next year or two so I'm doing some research. Is the 'Thunderhead' cultivar a suitable tree for somewhat larger bonsai? Or are there other varieties that people would suggest as better choices, especially for smaller bonsai?

 

[Hyn Patty]

Here are a few mail order choices for some varieties as well - and this website has a long list of other kinds of interesting trees as well. Have any of you here ordered from these people before? https://kiginursery.com/pinus-thunbergii-japanese-black-pines/

 

[Gsquared]

Plain old JBP is still hard to beat. I have a mikawa but don’t see a huge difference between it and regular black pine. It is temptin, all those fancy cultivars. But on the whole you never have to worry about grafting scars on standard Pinus thunbergii with their own roots.

 

[Adair M]

Thunderhead is a really POOR choice as a bonsai subject. The main problem is the thickness of the new shoots! They are as thick a pencil, at least!

Wait!, you say. Don’t we want thick trunks?

Trunks, yes. But not the twigs. Once the tree gets somewhat ratified, we want slender twigs to make nice pads. Thunderhead makes huge twigs.

Stay away.

Mikawa is an island of Japan. It’s said the JBP from there make good bark, and the needles are a little shorter.

The cork bark pines are grown for the cork bark. They rarely make nice classical bonsai. Difficult to wire as the cork pops off easily. They’re weaker than standard JBP.

KOTOBUKI is a sport that has naturally shorter needles. It often makes an extremely large number of new shoots coming from one spot, which need thinnng out. It’s popular with those who don’t know how to decandle properly to get short needles.

Good JBP have Good bark, dark green, straight needles, respond well to decandling, and have short internodes. The best way to get good nebari and get nice low branches is to use the Seedling cutting techniques as described in Bonsai Today magazine Issue #20. It’s teprinted in the Masters Series “Pines”.

 

[Hyn Patty]

This is exactly the kind of information I need, thank you. I'm not interested in the fancy ones but it certainly isn't easy to find a 'Plain old JBP'. What I have found is steeply priced. Not that I have been looking long. Yes, while I didn't see any obvious grafts on the 'Thunderhead' cultivars, the thick shoots did make me hesitate, Adair. I wondered, how do you refine /that/, my goodness.

Are you saying the most common way to get JBP's is to start them from seed? Do they not respond well to rooting cuttings, then? Thank you both, and Adair, I'll poke around and see if I can locate that issue or the article online or otherwise to read it. I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Hyn Patty]

Wow, that book is pretty expensive too! But I lucked out and with a little digging I found a copy available in the $20 something price range so I ordered it. I got the last copy they had. I see this book on Amazon.com for a whole lot more so I gather that's pretty sought after. Thanks for the tip Adair and I look forward to reading it.

 

[Adair M]

Wow, that book is pretty expensive too! But I lucked out and with a little digging I found a copy available in the $20 something price range so I ordered it. I got the last copy they had. I see this book on Amazon.com for a whole lot more so I gather that's pretty sought after. Thanks for the tip Adair and I look forward to reading it.

Steve Cratty at Plant City Bonsai has JBP.

 

[Hyn Patty]

Thanks. I also /finally/ got around to reading the 6 year JBP contest posts and I'm still reading them. That may be my best option to get my arse started with this species and learn as I go. It has certainly worked out well for me in the past with other things like adenium, to start several hundred from seed, and then not worry about it if I kill some along the way. Great way to learn for cheap. But I will not refuse sources JBP that are also further along and keep them in mind for later once I know a bit more about what I am doing.

Btw, EVERYONE here has been outstanding with helpful tips and info. I've been on a lot of forums over the years and run into a lot of snarky, unfriendly sorts. This place is quite warm and welcoming compared to most of the places I've been online so thank you all very much for all of the assistance. If I had such great resources 25+ years ago I wouldn't have given up on bonsai.

 

[River's Edge]

So, I'm not ready to get a JBP yet, but I was looking around to see what options there may be when shopping for trees in person at local nurseries. I'd like to try one maybe in the next year or two so I'm doing some research. Is the 'Thunderhead' cultivar a suitable tree for somewhat larger bonsai? Or are there other varieties that people would suggest as better choices, especially for smaller bonsai?

After years of looking at the various cultivars available and comparing them with good quality standard JBP I am convinced that the standard is my choice for many reasons. I would advise taking the time to compare the trees available carefully. There is a range of bark quality, needle structure, color and length. Pick one that has shorter needles, more compact foliage and better bark.
And yes they can be propagated from air layering off the parent plant. There is a great article describing th process in Golden Statements, March/April 2004. Written by Carl N Morimoto.This process is used to duplicate specific characteristics from prized specimens. Particularly for Shohin. The original technique in more detail is recorded the magazine Bonsai Sekai, no. 169, May 1984. Technical advising by Oishi.
The advantage of this process is rapid growth and thickening of the base with lots of lower branching. It involves a horizontal cut on the top of a candle combined with a typical air layer process on a very short stem.

 

[Thomas J.]

Get yourself some JBP seeds and sow them in the spring and give them life and shape and in 4yrs like the one shown, you can have something that you can say you did, a nice little shohin. After about 4yrs you'll start the ramification process. If you desire a larger tree with a fatter trunk then let it grow out past the 4yrs, possibly 6 or 7yrs before starting the ramification . Either way that's not long at all to have something nicer than you will probably find at a nursery where they have no shape but are usually just straight up with hardly ever having any lower branches. Just don't go crazy and plant so many seeds that you end up having more trees than you can take care of properly especially when the styling work begins. I planted 15 seeds and got 15 trees and that was plenty for me along with all my others. Styling them now is really fun and I can work each one for as much time as needed since I have just enough.

 

[Thomas J.]

In about 4yrs time this is what you should have from your seeds. Don't forget to give it some shape after the first year for sure so all your trees are not just straight up. I'm kind of partial to cascade and semi cascade trees so that is why I chose that shape for this tree and most of the others.

 

[Hyn Patty]

All right. I found a source online for seeds supposedly from Mikawa and ordered some. Let's hope they like Western North Carolina! I appreciate the information.

 

[Adair M]

JBP will do very well in Western North Carolina.

Here’s something even better in Western North Carolina: Tyler Sherrard! He lives in Hickory. He was an apprentice to Shinji Suzuki for 5 years.

Contact him and arrange to take classes or workshops with him. He’s really good, and a nice guy, too!

 

[Adair M]

The Asheville area has an active bonsai community. The North Carolina Arboretum has a show every October.

 

[Hyn Patty]

Whoa, now that is a nice tip about Tyler - I'll see if I can do that. Hickory won't be that horrible a drive either. I did know about the Blue Ridge Bonsai Society and already contacted them. I will hopefully make it to the June meeting. I'll be up to my eyeballs with moving and unpacking in May. October seems like a great month to have a show - and some autumn color at the same time.

I don't know if I have time to drop into Atlanta to see what the ABS is up to in May... maybe I'll have to go look at their webpage.

 

[Adair M]

It’s going to be at the Monastary in Conyers. With Rodney Clemons.

 

[Adair M]

The October show is somewhat unique. It’s a “regional” show. About 15 clubs in the Southeast are invited to show. Each club gets a table. Arthur Joura encourages “creative displays”. Most will be more traditional.

Different kind of show... there will be some great trees on display, as well as some - well, I’ll be kind - as well as some trees that might look great sometime in the future! Excellent vendors, and it’s a great way to meet people from all over the southeast!

 

[Hyn Patty]

Hmmmm. It looks like I can make it to Conyers from Cumming in a little over an hour. But not sure what the situation will be with moving and who's going to be at which house doing what by the 19th.

 

[Adair M]

Do you ever go to Plant City in Clairmont?

 

[Hyn Patty]

No, never been. I had to Google it up to refresh my memory. I know I have driven by several times over the years and it's not been open when we've gone past. It's actually not very far from where I am at the moment (We have been house sitting for a family member while we sold our home near Athens) so I probably should make the effort to go! Mother's Day is coming up after all. Thanks for the suggestion - I had forgotten that place existed.