JBP seedling cuttings - What size pot?

Size matters?

  • Small pot this year, bigger pot next year

    Votes: 5 71.4%
  • Bigger pot this year, bigger pot next year (lift to work roots and replace)

    Votes: 2 28.6%

  • Total voters
    7

sparklemotion

Shohin
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I'll be making a few dozen japanese black pine seedling cuttings soon, and I'm torn on pot sizes (honestly, I've been trying to sort this out for months).

Jonas of Bonsai Tonight posted this last August, which seems to imply that the "fast growing" batch was planted as cuttings in to "4 inch" pots. But then he shows two sizes of 4" pot (which is part of my problem here, TBH).

I don't want to go buy more pots because I have more than a reasonable amount of:

Small Pots - "3 inch" (really 2.63"x2.63"x2.25") squares - 15.5 cu in.
3InchPressFitPot_compact.jpg


Bigger Pots - Anderson #2004 bands (3.57x3.57x4.25") - 54 cu in. (plus flats)
5x12-Band-90x90.jpg
2401B-Deep-Propagation-90x90.jpg


On the one hand, I'm wary of over potting because the Earth is not Like a Pot. On the other hand, I'd rather not repot again before next Spring.

If my goal is to maximize JBP growth during a short growing season, assuming a 1:1:1 DE/pumice/bark mix (not 100% committed to that yet), should I go for:
Option A: Cutting in small pot this year, up to bigger pot next spring, or
Option B: Cutting in big pot this year and next.
 

Fonz

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From what I've read so far a 4 inch pot will do for the first 2 years. 8" Pond basket after that.
 

Nybonsai12

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I did a 4 inch pot the first two years and then moved to colanders.
 

theone420

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Wires_Guy_wires

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The more medium, the slower it will dry out. The more you'll have to feed and the less you'll have to water.
I'd say bigger is better. I am noticing that mine dry out way too fast (within 8 hours) and I'm going to need to add a lot more organics to counter that.
 

River's Edge

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I'll be making a few dozen japanese black pine seedling cuttings soon, and I'm torn on pot sizes (honestly, I've been trying to sort this out for months).

Jonas of Bonsai Tonight posted this last August, which seems to imply that the "fast growing" batch was planted as cuttings in to "4 inch" pots. But then he shows two sizes of 4" pot (which is part of my problem here, TBH).

I don't want to go buy more pots because I have more than a reasonable amount of:

Small Pots - "3 inch" (really 2.63"x2.63"x2.25") squares - 15.5 cu in.
3InchPressFitPot_compact.jpg


Bigger Pots - Anderson #2004 bands (3.57x3.57x4.25") - 54 cu in. (plus flats)
5x12-Band-90x90.jpg
2401B-Deep-Propagation-90x90.jpg


On the one hand, I'm wary of over potting because the Earth is not Like a Pot. On the other hand, I'd rather not repot again before next Spring.

If my goal is to maximize JBP growth during a short growing season, assuming a 1:1:1 DE/pumice/bark mix (not 100% committed to that yet), should I go for:
Option A: Cutting in small pot this year, up to bigger pot next spring, or
Option B: Cutting in big pot this year and next.
The 3 inch pot is perfect for just after the seedling cutting and the first growing season. For the next stage i use a small colandar set in the ground. Bonsai soil in the colandar. This i use for years 2,3,4. Lifting and cutting the roots growing out of the colandar each spring and rotating the tree. Year five i move to grow box or Anderson flat. The deep propagation style.
Note: for the cutting place in centre core of sterilized play sand with bonsai mix outer. The mix you have suggested will work as you are changing the small pots out in a year. The sand will keep the area next to the cutting damp and promote roots faster. They will extend into the coarser mix quickly and thicken up.
 

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Toraidento

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wow your head has to be hurting. Because you are thinking way to hard. TREE SOIL POT put them together
 

ysrgrathe

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These were in the small anderson band pots (2.25"?). I had them escaping into my Napa 8822 beds -- they probably had 12" of roots that outgrew the pots the first year! It makes me think a larger pot (or the escape method that @Riversedgebonsai mentioned) is of value.

This year I am trying some 3" pots and some 8" colanders for the cuttings.
 

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River's Edge

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These were in the small anderson band pots (2.25"?). I had them escaping into my Napa 8822 beds -- they probably had 12" of roots that outgrew the pots the first year! It makes me think a larger pot (or the escape method that @Riversedgebonsai mentioned) is of value.

This year I am trying some 3" pots and some 8" colanders for the cuttings.
The reason i stay with smaller pots the first year is to use finer mix for the roots and i know the roots will not outgrow that space in one year after root cutting. Even in my climate that often produces three flushes for JBP in a season.
I have just finished repotting and transferring size of containers for my JBP and JRP. Here is some snapshots of the use of space decided for this year. Not included are the older pines in anderson flats and grow boxes outside this area. The last picture is using the same approach for Trident, Zelkova and Korean Hornbeam. Except i progressively cut back each year for trunk building and taper design. Not the reccomended process for pine;)
 

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3 years ago I planted them in small pond baskets. Thinking that the constant airpruning would yield better results. The crop in larger baskets did have the same amount of roots leaving the stem. There where feeder roots a bit closer in the smaller baskets but the slower growth doesn't make that the best choice. For the first year I don't think it matters. Smaller pots are convenient.
 

Toraidento

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I have just finished repotting and transferring size of containers for my JBP and JRP.
I was wondering about JRP in my growing area being so far south in 8b? @Riversedgebonsai Frank you don't have any problems growing JRP in zone 8b? WAIT you are in BC in Canada that's not zone 8b??? I guess it is looking at the map
 

mcpesq817

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I used 4" pond baskets for my seedling cuttings.
 

River's Edge

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I was wondering about JRP in my growing area being so far south in 8b? @Riversedgebonsai Frank you don't have any problems growing JRP in zone 8b? WAIT you are in BC in Canada that's not zone 8b??? I guess it is looking at the map
Surprising but our climate is pretty mild in this location, one of the benefits is not just the average temperatures but the narrowness of the range of temperatures. We lack the extremes. In fact our overall climate is fairly similar to Japan. My particular location is in a microclimate that has an extended warm period with lots of sun. My JBP often have three flushes in a good season. The JRP grow at different rates than the JBP in my experience. JBP has a much more aggressive growth pattern than JRP. My JBP are larger at the end of year three than my five year old JRP. Same soil mix and same fertilizer program and in the same watering cycle. The JBP begin growing earlier in the season and have an extended growth period compared to the JRP. I have also noticed more variation in the growth pattern of JRP. I only have a few JRP from seeds gifted to me by my teacher. I believe these seeds were selected from JRP that are more compact in their habit and acquired from a grower in Japan. Some seem almost dwarf like in their habit. While others are the slender , elegant form expected. I was very excited to see some of the smaller compact ones appear. I really admire one particular smaller JRP show specimen that was a winner in the most recent BIB show. These smaller compact versions must be programmed differently. They have lots of low branching and shorter needles. They are growing very well though, the tree species just have different growth rates. Just like my Tridents are outpacing the Matsumurae, and the Zelkova are way ahead of the Korean Hornbeam. Now if only i could get faster growth out of the Kingsville Boxwood:cool:.
 
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