JBP Pruning behind the candle

[Rhumphres01]

I’m new to JBPs and I was wondering what happens if you prune behind the candles? I have read it promotes needle buds, but will it back bud candles on the tip where I cut it as well? How should you cut back if it hasnt been candle pruned in years and is lengthy?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

If you prune behind the candle, into last years growth, a healthy tree will produce new apical buds and maybe some buds further back.
If the timing is wrong and/or you cut too far back, you risk losing the branch. You need needles on the branch, healthy needles. Otherwise the tree kills the branch.

With regular candle cutting and normal techniques, good watering and nutrients, normal candle cutting will get you back buds on 3-4 year old wood, sometimes older.

Doing risky stuff is risky, so on real lengthy branches you might want to consider grafting.

 

[Rhumphres01]

If you prune behind the candle, into last years growth, a healthy tree will produce new apical buds and maybe some buds further back.
If the timing is wrong and/or you cut too far back, you risk losing the branch. You need needles on the branch, healthy needles. Otherwise the tree kills the branch.

With regular candle cutting and normal techniques, good watering and nutrients, normal candle cutting will get you back buds on 3-4 year old wood, sometimes older.

Doing risky stuff is risky, so on real lengthy branches you might want to consider grafting.

Ah gotcha, and if I cut back into last years growth would that be about the same time as decandling in the summer? Or would it be when you would normally be selecting candles?

 

[Wulfskaar]

I am a rookie JBP candle pruner, but I'll give you my first experience.

I followed Eric Schrader's video, I think it was this one:

He explains things very clearly in a way that I understand why he's doing what he's doing.

On one, I cut just above the base of the candle in order to get the buds at the base to grow new branches there.

On another, I cust just below the base of the candle in order to get more energy into lower buds and branches.

I did it at the same point as shown in the video, where the candles had extended and needles were starting to grow. So far, so good. The 2nd flush of growth has been really good and worked on both as advertised.

Here is another of his videos that may help you as well:

 

[Shibui]

No problem cutting black pine below the new candles provided there are healthy needles left on the branch. As JBP needles usually live for 3 years that means you can cut back to the older needles that may be 2 seasons back on the branch. Hard pruning like this won't give new candles at the cut like decandling but new buds/ candles will grow from many of the needles. You may also get some back buds from the bare section below if the tree is healthy and you have luck on your side.
Sometimes cutting back to the side branches closer to the trunk and regrowing the branches is the best start to renovating an overgrown pine.
Grafting may be a useful tool if all branches are too long.

Budding will be much weaker if you allow some strong, active shoots to remain in the upper parts - apical dominance - so I prefer to cut back all over when trying for good back budding.

Hard prune can be done any time of year but response may vary.
Early spring chop will give plenty of new buds but the candles may grow strong and long.
Early summer chop (decandling time) will still give lots of new buds but they generally don't extend much.
Autumn and winter prune nothing much happens until the following spring when you should get lots of strong new shoots again.

 

[Wulfskaar]

JBP needles usually live for 3 years

I have a 4 year old JBP that is losing it's lower needles (turning brown/orange). I suspect they are 3 years old.

Is this the time of year for that? I am wondering if it's just due to the needles being old or if there is something else going on.

 

[WIlliam_Butler_Yeets]

I have a 4 year old JBP that is losing it's lower needles (turning brown/orange). I suspect they are 3 years old.

Is this the time of year for that? I am wondering if it's just due to the needles being old or if there is something else going on.

mine is doing the same, it does appear to be normal, needles that are going to die do so heading into fall, which i assume is an adaptation so that the tree doesn't have to spend resources maintaining old needles through the winter

 

[Shibui]

I am wondering if it's just due to the needles being old or if there is something else going on.

It is very hard to guess what's happening with so little info. Pictures give us lots of extra info that you have not thought of or had time to type. Good quality images of the entire tree, affected branches and the needles if possible as well as overview of where it lives and soil for best diagnosis of problems.
It's usually fairly easy to count back to determine ages on pines as they have such a marked growth spurt once each year. It gets a bit harder when they've been pruned or decandled which introduces second growth and removed the bare 'necks' in the new growth.

mine is doing the same, it does appear to be normal, needles that are going to die do so heading into fall, which i assume is an adaptation so that the tree doesn't have to spend resources maintaining old needles through the winter

My JBP usually start to drop old needles in summer. I thought that was because the new needles had opened and started to work effectively at that stage. Maybe they have different cycles in different areas. Maybe there doesn't need to be a reason. It just is.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Thank you @Shibui .

Here are pics. I plan to make this one a literati.

 

[Shibui]

Those yellow needles are indeed 3, possibly 4 years old though there's one very short section which could be a second growth spurt one year. Look for needles and a bare section below for each year's growth. Side shoots are also an indicator. Side shoots emerge from the base of spring candles so can also show the end of one year's growth and the start of the next.
Sometimes the section is longer, sometimes shorter depending on conditions.
I've marked the yearly growth sections on the photo to illustrate.

The tree appears to be 4 or 5 years old.