JBP/JRP Decandle Timing in NE Kansas

[hemmy]

I’m looking for some feedback on timing of decandling for refinement on Japanese Red and Black Pines in NE Kansas where the average last frost date is listed as Oct. 22nd. From @Brian Van Fleet’s blog, I see count back 100 days which puts it at July 16th. This seems late and is later than I’ve decandled in Southern Cali. The trees are in Cali now but will be in KS by July. There was a year that I decandled in late July in Cali and didn’t seem to get new candles pushing until the following year. Pic is of JRPs that will have some selective decandling for branch refinement.

 

[Dav4]

In N. GA, where the first frost was typically Ist week in November, I was de-candling the big pines between the 3rd and 4th week in June, and getting the medium and smaller ones done before July 4th, though I could do it a bit later. Here in MI, my new Ist frost date is 10/10... ... I'll be de-candling the big ones in early June and the smaller ones a week or so later.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Try it and see. Always good to get reports from different climates. Do it sooner and it will lead to bigger needles, later will result in smaller.

 

[Shibui]

Down here we don't really have an accepted first frost date but probably some time in June would be typical. I still get best results when I decandle in Mid Dec even though that's around 160 days before first frost here. Decandling here after mid summer can result in no new shoots that summer.
Just wondering if decandling time is more about daylength than frost? How do growers in frost free areas work out when?
I've also found that red pines are slower to respond so typically do those a few weeks before the black pines.

 

[AnutterBonsai]

Is there a good source online to buy younger JRPs?

 

[hemmy]

Decandling here after mid summer can result in no new shoots that summer.
Just wondering if decandling time is more about daylength than frost? How do growers in frost free areas work out when?
I've also found that red pines are slower to respond so typically do those a few weeks before the black pines.

That was my experience also when pruning later in an area without frosts.

Good tip on the difference in pine growth.

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

 

[hemmy]

Is there a good source online to buy younger JRPs?

These were from seed, ~4-5years.

 

[AnutterBonsai]

These were from seed, ~4-5years.

Very nice!

 

[hemmy]

Another question, on areas were there are 3 candles but the two smaller are of similar size and might be used in the design. Is it better to remove all the candles and start from the new flush or leave them all on until this fall and then just shorten and keep two?


and then where there are two candles of unequal size, remove both or keep them and cut them back in the fall.

 

[Shibui]

Another question, on areas were there are 3 candles but the two smaller are of similar size and might be used in the design. Is it better to remove all the candles and start from the new flush or leave them all on until this fall and then just shorten and keep two?

Depends on what stage your tree is up to.
In growing stage when trunk thickness is the main goal I don't decandle each year. Better trunk thickening from allowing plenty of growth above and you can still get good back budding on 3-4 year old wood after a hard cut back.
If you aim to keep that section as part of the final design you will need to remove 1 of the shoots because allowing all 3 to grow will usually thicken the stem where they all join. If the design is below that junction it won't matter if they all stay as it will be pruned below eventually.

In the ramification stage where building branch density is the goal pruning becomes more important than trunk thickening so shoots are pruned each year. Pruning in spring/summer gives immediate response with short new shoots while pruning in fall means new shoots will not appear until the following spring and are generally long.

 

[hemmy]

Pruning in spring/summer gives immediate response with short new shoots while pruning in fall means new shoots will not appear until the following spring and are generally long.

Thank you. I think I already understood most of those concepts. But I guess there are multiple variables influencing shoot length (vigor) and whether it will work with design goals. Fertilization, container size, needle mass will all impact shoot length. In the last previous pic, the goal is ramification. The longer candle is already too long, especially since the base without needles is too long. So they will both be removed.

The top picture of the previous post might still be part of the design, but could be sacrifice. I will remove the middle stronger of the 3 and if needed, will cut the other 2 back in the fall.