JBP Fall Update & Fall work questions

[Paradox]

I bought this JBP in 2013 and I left it alone for the most part until this summer to get to know the tree and see how it did under my care.

I candle pruned it in July and removed some of the needles then but I dont think I did enough so I went back today and removed more needles and removed shoots where there were 3 or more back to 2.

So my question is, did I do enough, too much, just right? Would appreciate some feedback on this guy to know if what I am doing is correct or not. The tree will be repotted next spring.

Thanks

Pics taken today after the work was done.

 

[Paradox]

More pics from today. Different angles.

 

[Paradox]

Last pic from the top.

One thing that is obvious from the pics, is that the top is stronger than the bottom, which is to be expected.

 

[Giga]

Lots of needles still on there but it's kinda hard to tell as there's a lot going on. I would maybe start thinking about branch selection, and maybe remove a branch or two as this is the time I usally remove any unwanted strong growth. I have a small jbp that a little bit bigger then urs that I plan on putting it in the ground and growing sacrifice branches to thickin the trunk but keep the areas I want in check. Maybe something to consider too

 

[Paradox]

Yes there are still lots on there, which is why I am seeking advice. The problem is that this year's needles are very long probably because I didnt do anything to the tree last year. I did remove the downward and upward needles and was afraid to remove any more. I did prune out shoots where there were 3 or more. You should have seen it before I did the work today, it really was bushy!

I think about which branches I would want to keep, particularly up top where it is very thick. I did see some branches that could be removed, and I think I know which direction I want to take it.

The concern about doing it now is that the tree really needs a repot next spring. I didnt want to go against the 1 major insult per year rule.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I candle pruned it in July and removed some of the needles...
my question is, did I do enough, too much, just right? Would appreciate some feedback on this guy to know if what I am doing is correct or not.
Pics taken today after the work was done.

One thing that is obvious from the pics, is that the top is stronger than the bottom, which is to be expected.

Ok, this will take a few posts to get through, so hold replies for a bit to allow for them.

The question was, did you do enough, not enough, or just right. The fact that you're noticing the imbalance is good because it indicates that something didn't go 100% right. Let's dig in.

1. Needle pulling is to balance energy in the tree. The simple way to do this is to count the average number of new needle pairs on the weakest shoots, and reduce every other shoot down to roughly that number of pairs. This is done at nearly any time of the year, but most commonly in the fall through early spring, and sometimes in mid summer when candle-cutting.

2. Candle-pruning, or removing all of the current year's candles in mid summer is to shorten internodes, increase ramification, and through proper timing or leaving stubs, will also help balance the strength of the tree. Weak candles are cut first (or cut flush if cutting all at once) so they get a head start on developing a second set of candles. Medium candles are cut 7-10 days later (or cut leaving a small stub if cutting all at once, equal in height to the stub's width), and the second set of candles will be triggered. Strong candles are cut another 7-10 days later (or cut leaving a stub 1.5-2x the width of the stub if cutting all at once) which will cause a second set of candles to grow at the base of the stub. We won't deal with that now, because it's not the right season for it.

Look at your tree and observe the imbalance. Either you did not candle-prune the weak area circled in red, or the timing was off, or too many needles were left in the strong area of the tree during the summer. Regardless of why (though it's important to determine), the next post is how to deal with an imbalanced pine in the fall.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

The next three posts are appropriate work for this season, and deal with balancing the tree's strength.

A good tip about pine training: the best place to start is ALWAYS with the work that is appropriate for the current season. In Fall, we pull needles, prune excess shoots, and remove excess buds.

Here is a weak shoot emerging from a lower branch that spends some time shaded out by the rest of the tree. Observe that it has one bud set for next year, and has about 15 pairs of needles on the current year's candle. We can't add buds or needles, but we can give it a fighting chance by reducing the relative strength in other areas, so the energy doesn't get directed away from this low, weak shoot.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Medium areas will need to have some of this year's needles removed, so they're left with slightly fewer pairs than the weak shoots, since medium shoots are likely to have bigger buds and better sun exposure than the weak shoots.

In this example, we take the number of needle pairs down to 12-15.

Next, take it a step further and reduce the three buds set for next year down to two buds. Because it's a medium-strength shoot, remove the strongest bud, leaving the two side buds, which are fortunately, equally-sized, and across from one another. This means the buds will grow side by side, and evenly-sized next year. This will make wiring easier...and balance is improving.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Next, here is a delightfully exaggerated example of a strong shoot. The technique is as follows:

First, reduce new needle pairs down to fewer than the medium strength shoots, so around 10 pairs here.

Second, reduce the buds down to a pair of the smallest buds, also evenly sized and emerging across from one another. Notice how all of the buds remaining in these three examples are about the same size? Everything is done to improve balance.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Finally, when pruning pines, resulting growth can come from two places; at nodes or from the sheaths between needles. Since your pine is unbalanced, you may find it necessary to prune branches differently that the examples above, in a way instead that leaves no terminal buds. This is ok, so long as the branch still has some needle pairs attached. Here is what can be expected in several pruning scenarios.
First, a long shoot has two other viable, smaller shoots emerging at it's base. Removing the long shoot leaves the two smaller shoots, whose buds will grow next spring.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Those 2 shoots are different in strength, right? So if we leave them as they are, the disparity in strength will only grow worse. So, here is how to address this; shorten the stronger shoot, and by removing the terminal bud, adventitious buds will pop from the sheaths between the remaining needles. So we prune the strong shoot this year, and next year prune the other shoot, so the result is adventitious buds along both shoots, closer to the main branch. Once those appear, select pairs of shoots that are similar in strength, and balance each.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Even better, if you notice the branch used in the last two posts still has needles left on the primary. Since its strong, we could reduce the branch even further and allow new buds to develop as shown. With a little luck, a few adventitious buds may even appear along the bare portion of the stem. When they become viable, we can reduce the branch back to the one most proximal to the trunk.

Hope that helps give some direction on how to proceed with your pine. Prune it now so each branch is roughly the same strength as shown above. It may look a little goofy for now, but by next fall, it will be better balanced, have more back-budding, and be ready to work. It should be no problem to prune and needle-pluck now and still repot in the spring.

 

[Paradox]

Thank you Brian, I will study your posts and work on the tree some more.

I am glad that it isnt beyond repair and I didnt ruin it yet.

BTW I ordered your book so that should also help once I can read it.

 

[Adair M]

Brian's advice is spot on.

Looking at your trees on my iPhone, it looks like you can pull the long needles that were produced in 2013. This will make the tree look less "fuzzy". On shoots that are weak interior shoots, don't pull the old needles. Instead, you can leave them to provide extra food for those shoots. You may choose to cut them shorter so they appear to be about the same length as this year's summer needles.

 

[coh]

Thanks Brian (and Adair), very nice summary of what can/should be done and how to expect the tree to respond. Very helpful!

Chris

 

[Adair M]

A bit more about balancing...

JBP are very vigorous. They want to grow tall. So they will be trying to grow more at the top of the tree, and less at the bottom. Left to themselves, they would just grow up, and let the bottom branches get shaded out, and they'll eventually die off. Not what we want at all! We want go see a "balanced" tree, where it appears all portions of the tree are of equal vigor.

So, how do we do this?

By needle pulling. Pull more needles from the apex area, and pull fewer from the weaker sections below. If we divide the tree into 3 sections, you might leave 5 pairs up top, 7 to 9 pairs in the middle, and 12 pairs at the bottom.

Do this every year, and eventually the tree equals out the vigor, and becomes more naturally balanced.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Wow...I guess I didn't know what all went into pines. Most conifers with needles must have this tending, I imagine...

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Wow...I guess I didn't know what all went into pines. Most conifers with needles must have this tending, I imagine...

Yes and no. All bonsai require balancing work, the techniques described above are very specific to 2-needle pines, and critical for proper cultivation. Vigorous trees like JBP and JRP can handle more aggressive needle pulling as shown. Pondy and Mugo should be left with more needles. White pines are treated entirely different.

 

[Adair M]

We do this work with JBP because we CAN. The ability we have to so carefully control the growth of JBP is what makes them so responsive.

This process is what we call "refinement". Development of short needles, short internodes between branches, dense growth, foliage close to the trunk, no hanging needles, etc.

Once a tree begins "refinement", it won't build trunk girth any more. The bark will develop, but don't expect to fatten any trunks.

 

[Derek91]

Wow...I guess I didn't know what all went into pines. Most conifers with needles must have this tending, I imagine...

I have stayed away from pines because they seem a little more complicated and difficult to be perfectly honest. I really want to try to work with one but the more I read about the care and techniques the more I push them away for now.not sure if my impression of this is correct but the the difficulty level of pines seem to be on the higher side in bonsai compared to most other genus.