Japanese white pine from seed (pinus parviflora)

[clem]

hello, i'll show you the evolution of my recent acquisition, a japanese white pine from seed. I bought it this year, because i liked the shape of the trunk (tapper, curves + shari/uromiki) et i liked the branches too.

The tree shown in the website (Maillot Bonsai) ->





The tree is approx 55 cm high.
The tree in my garden in May ->


I removed the moss to let the soil dry out quicker and also to check the nebari ->


My projet (virtual) is to incline it more, to developp more the 1rst branch and maybe to enlarge the shari ->


The tree in the middle of September ( 2 weeks ago) after a light wiring and styling to make it look better ->


The second branch on the right is weak, with no bud so it will probably die. But if it dies, i will keep a jin and use the branch above it to create a new branche (and replace it). Virtual ->


The tree 1 week ago : the right branch died and the old needles (grown 2 years ago) are yellow ->


The soil has some mycorrhizae, which is a very good point ->


The 1rst branch (on the left) is weaker than the other parts of the tree. So i removed the old needles of the crown and branches (except the 1rst branch). I alos kept the dead branches into jins to get a wilder tree.
The crown before removing old needles ->


After ->


The 2 possible fronts (depending on which we want to show a conical base or more marked curves on the trunk) :
1rst front (larger base) ->


Second possible front (with a better movement of the trunk) ->

The tree outside with sunlight ->


Next year, i will keep the tree in that compact soil, because it has mycorrhizae, and because i want to restore more vigor to the 1rst branch.
I'm crossing my fingers that it stays in good shape/healthy because, obviously, i like it very much .. I always wanted to buy a good JWP, a species that makes me dream of kokufu albums.

 

[Viridian Bonsai]

Excellent, mature bark and a very pleasing needle colour! This will develop into an even greater tree in your care. I have always had an affinity for five needle pines like Pinus albicaulis, Pinus aristata, Pinus flexilis, and of course, Pinus parviflora. Definitely my favourite traditional species for bonsai. Best of luck!

 

[Colorado]

What a great tree, Clem! Very nice!!

 

[Nybonsai12]

Awesome tree!

 

[Dabbler]

That's a very elegant white pine!

 

[Silentrunning]

Very nice. White pines are one of my favorites.

 

[Japonicus]

Next year, i will keep the tree in that compact soil, because it has mycorrhizae, and because i want to restore more vigor to the 1rst branch.

Very nice from seed JWP
You'll get more vigor when you repot it. Always get more vigor after repotting, sometimes, too much vigor.
Just let the new candles grow where you want more vigor
pinching back the other candles on the rest of the tree (removing 75% length). Then when the candles are become shoots
cut back to 5 or so bundles of needles on the new candles turned shoots, upon your weaker branch.
Given the work done on a new acquisition, and loss of a branch, I would skip repotting till 2026 too,
but not for the same reason.
However, I would aerate the soil and roots this coming Spring, to help the breathability of the root mass/percolation.
Avoid fertilizers until late Summer. This reduces the length of the necks, and needles.

As you're removing old soil, keep some mycorrhizae and introduce to the new soil within reason.
This fungus is never a reason not to repot.

 

[Mike Westervelt]

Very nice JWP, I personally prefer front #2 for the movement you stated, and the position that the first 2 branches come off the trunk.

 

[River's Edge]

Very nice acquisition. I would prioritize the improvement of the soil percolation and investigate the root ball. Was this perhaps the underlying cause of the loss of branch?
Tree has considerable value, I would want to ensure the foundation for the future is healthy roots! If you have six weeks before freeze in your area or the ability to protect the tree I would consider " looking under the hood" and correcting any major problems sooner rather than later.

 

[clem]

Very nice acquisition. I would prioritize the improvement of the soil percolation and investigate the root ball. Was this perhaps the underlying cause of the loss of branch?
Tree has considerable value, I would want to ensure the foundation for the future is healthy roots! If you have six weeks before freeze in your area or the ability to protect the tree I would consider " looking under the hood" and correcting any major problems sooner rather than later.

thank you, i have also seen, 1 month ago, a big white root 1cm under the soil surface.. so i think the rootball is healthy. The relationship you make between the death of the branch and the roots is a good lead.. Next spring i could lift the tree outside of the pot and check the rootball, what do you think : good idea or not ?

Maybe the branch on the right died because it became weaker this year ?
The branch 1 year ago ->


The branch in May of this year : the shoots are weaker than last year ->


My best friend says it could be change of climate and living environment that caused the death of the branch.
This pine was invaded by aphids and has been treated the day before I went to pick it up (in May) so maybe this parasitism played a role ?

 

[clem]

Very nice JWP, I personally prefer front #2 for the movement you stated, and the position that the first 2 branches come off the trunk.

+1 : the same for me and my best friend, for the same reasons

 

[clem]

Very nice from seed JWP

However, I would aerate the soil and roots this coming Spring, to help the breathability of the root mass/percolation.
Avoid fertilizers until late Summer. This reduces the length of the necks, and needles.

As you're removing old soil, keep some mycorrhizae and introduce to the new soil within reason.
This fungus is never a reason not to repot.

Thank you for thoses advises.
I prefer to not repot it next year because i'm not experienced in repotting JWP (the ABE family advises to be very carefull with the roots while repotting) and i want to see how it grows in my climate, with my cultivation skills. The fact that there are a lot of fungus in the soil make me think that the repotting is not an emergency. But next spring, i think i will check the rootball to be sure everything is ok with the roots.

When you say "I would aerate the soil and roots this coming Spring" : what would you do precisely ?

On this video they show a JWP that is in the same pot since 10 years, and still healthy.

He removed the surface substrate layer, to improve water absorption.

 

[Japonicus]

Thank you for thoses advises.
I prefer to not repot it next year because i'm not experienced in repotting JWP (the ABE family advises to be very carefull with the roots while repotting) and i want to see how it grows in my climate, with my cultivation skills. The fact that there are a lot of fungus in the soil make me think that the repotting is not an emergency. But next spring, i think i will check the rootball to be sure everything is ok with the roots.

When you say "I would aerate the soil and roots this coming Spring" : what would you do precisely ?

On this video they show a JWP that is in the same pot since 10 years, and still healthy.

He removed the surface substrate layer, to improve water absorption.

I use a round tent stake like a big nail. You can also use a dull awl but the hole will fill back in more quickly. All holes will fill in with root growth and soil break down.
Plunge the spike as deep as you can carefully, working around root wood. This can be done now no issue. Now is good time to be in the late stages of fertilising.

I wouldn't do anymore work on it this year unless you aerate the roots some.

I have no experience potting JWP on its own roots, rather grafted ones. Still, you need to address the shin and any tangled matted roots. Do not bare root the whole mass.
A tree in a pot 10 yrs is probably in inorganic soil.
Does not apply to all situations. Grafted to JBP my repots are more frequent 2-3 years because their roots are more aggressive and probably thicker. Plus I am not terribly aggressive.

 

[Japonicus]

Linked below...
Last year I took a semi conservative approach to repotting mine. I was aggressive with the shin from underneath, sliced off the bottom and reduced diameter by maybe 2 inches (~5cm) at most, probably less. It is now again, not percolating well. So next repot I will address the sides and top a bit more.
"Pine"
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/japonicus-japanese-white-pine.59532/#:~:text=Japonicus' Japanese White-,Pine,-Thread starter

 

[River's Edge]

Just to explain further, but I respect your right to differ and choose another direction.
I would prioritize the improvement of the soil percolation and investigate the root ball.

e the branch on the right died because it became weaker this year ?

The cause for the continued weakening? The branch looks healthy in the first picture, just yellowed older needles.

My best friend says it could be change of climate and living environment that caused the death of the branch.
This pine was invaded by aphids and has been treated the day before I went to pick it up (in May) so maybe this parasitism played a role ?

Perhaps a contributor but not likely the cause with pines.

The fact that there are a lot of fungus in the soil make me think that the repotting is not an emergency.

Surface and near surface mycorrhizae are no indication of the rest of the root balls condition.
Lack of experience in repotting should not stop you from removing the root ball from the pot and checking the condition for root rot on the sides and bottom to ensure proper drainage. You can also use a chopstick to penetrate the root ball to ensure more air and moisture reach certain areas if that is needed. The only way to know what the situation is , would be to check. If there is a problem and it remains for the winter when it typically is wetter and colder, the problem will get worse.
I understand the reluctance to take action when one lacks the confidence. Perhaps consult an experienced and trained person in your area before deciding. A simple check will confirm all is ok or one needs to intervene! Root rot is easy to spot and smell, Lack of drainage and dead roots stand out as dead black wet zones or dry as dust crumbly zones with no living roots.
After all if all is well no action is required and if there are major problems you will likely lose the tree or more branches by doing nothing!
Simply the way I see the situation.

 

[Japonicus]

Just to explain further, but I respect your right to differ and choose another direction.
I would prioritize the improvement of the soil percolation and investigate the root ball.

The cause for the continued weakening? The branch looks healthy in the first picture, just yellowed older needles.

Perhaps a contributor but not likely the cause with pines.

Surface and near surface mycorrhizae are no indication of the rest of the root balls condition.
Lack of experience in repotting should not stop you from removing the root ball from the pot and checking the condition for root rot on the sides and bottom to ensure proper drainage. You can also use a chopstick to penetrate the root ball to ensure more air and moisture reach certain areas if that is needed. The only way to know what the situation is , would be to check. If there is a problem and it remains for the winter when it typically is wetter and colder, the problem will get worse.
I understand the reluctance to take action when one lacks the confidence. Perhaps consult an experienced and trained person in your area before deciding. A simple check will confirm all is ok or one needs to intervene! Root rot is easy to spot and smell, Lack of drainage and dead roots stand out as dead black wet zones or dry as dust crumbly zones with no living roots.
After all if all is well no action is required and if there are major problems you will likely lose the tree or more branches by doing nothing!
Simply the way I see the situation.

You are entirely right Frank and I, do not differ.
Yes the chopstick would be good tool.
Aerating while the soil is damp might damage good roots for some, and while dry
would be more difficult to plunge through, so maybe a balance between the two or near dry for aerating?
The round tent stake buffers the pressure on your palm. If you cannot plunge the soil, it is overly root bound.
I fully agree with lifting here in Fall to have a look "under the hood" so to speak.
This would be a good time to remove any found issues while keeping the rest of the rootball intact.

 

[clem]

Linked below...
Last year I took a semi conservative approach to repotting mine. I was aggressive with the shin from underneath, sliced off the bottom and reduced diameter by maybe 2 inches (~5cm) at most, probably less. It is now again, not percolating well. So next repot I will address the sides and top a bit more.
"Pine"
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/japonicus-japanese-white-pine.59532/#:~:text=Japonicus' Japanese White-,Pine,-Thread starter

It is difficult to see on the pics : is your pine grafted on JBP ?

 

[clem]

Just to explain further, but I respect your right to differ and choose another direction.
I would prioritize the improvement of the soil percolation and investigate the root ball.

The cause for the continued weakening? The branch looks healthy in the first picture, just yellowed older needles.

Perhaps a contributor but not likely the cause with pines.

Surface and near surface mycorrhizae are no indication of the rest of the root balls condition.
Lack of experience in repotting should not stop you from removing the root ball from the pot and checking the condition for root rot on the sides and bottom to ensure proper drainage. You can also use a chopstick to penetrate the root ball to ensure more air and moisture reach certain areas if that is needed. The only way to know what the situation is , would be to check. If there is a problem and it remains for the winter when it typically is wetter and colder, the problem will get worse.
I understand the reluctance to take action when one lacks the confidence. Perhaps consult an experienced and trained person in your area before deciding. A simple check will confirm all is ok or one needs to intervene! Root rot is easy to spot and smell, Lack of drainage and dead roots stand out as dead black wet zones or dry as dust crumbly zones with no living roots.
After all if all is well no action is required and if there are major problems you will likely lose the tree or more branches by doing nothing!
Simply the way I see the situation.

Now the needles are beautifull and green, no sign of rootrot.

Here are 2 pics of yesterday, showing fungus on the surface + 1 root emerging with white tip ->



Now we are in the beginning of October. It's 5°C this night, and it's 9°C at 9 a.m.
Imagine i remove the rootball from the pot. There are 2 possibilities :
1 - White roots + fungus = fine, i put the rootball back in the pot.
2 - Rootball with a lack of white rootlets, with a doubt on the health of the roots -> what will be the next step ?

->I remove the soil to check inside the rootball and take a risk ? And what is next ? a repotting in October when the T° are 10 - 15°C and will get even lower with time ?

-> Or i just manage the watering (balance water-O²) and keep the rootball intact ?
I have bad experiences in repotting in October for conifer (picea and scotts pine) : the roots don't grow because the T° are too low and get even lower with time.

So, even if the rootball is not reassuring, doubtful, i will not repot the tree.

If prefer to not stress the tree, to not remove the rootball from the pot, and manage the watering and let the soil surface get completly dry before watering again (i will keep the tree away from the rain in autumn and winter (greenhouse).
Untill next spring and a possible repotting because it will then be the right time to do it.

 

[Japonicus]

It is difficult to see on the pics : is your pine grafted on JBP ?

Yes it is.
You must have nissed my post here post 13

Grafted to JBP my repots are more frequent 2-3 years because their roots are more aggressive and probably thicker.

What Frank was talking about checking for root root or just dying roots that are soggy and would lead to rot,
when we say check under the hood, means to un-tie the wires tethering the tree to pot and lift the tree from pot and inspect. Autumn is fine to do so. If all is fine/ok, tether back in leaving the root mass undisturbed.
If black area(s) is found, it is like a cancer and needs removing into good tissue. Leave the rest of the root mass undisturbed. Try to keep the wire in the roots as it is now when you remove. It may break at twist hopefully not. Do not try to snug the wire tight. Old used wire will break.

 

[Japonicus]

Link
"Loosing a few branches of my white pine"
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/j...:text=Loosing a few branches of my white pine