Japanese Maple help!!

[Jupiter]

Hey just looking for some insight on this JM. Not sure if root rot or possibly some issue that happened during winterizing. Any help is always greatly appreciated. Roots are dark but not mushy. New growth came in strong but is really wilted. Everything is just drooping downwards. No discolouration. Any ideas? Is this future tree toasted? Is there anything I could do to get this tree back? what about chop at lower trunk dipped in rooting powder.

 

[Shibui]

Could be that it is not in a pot? but maybe the photos are just taken for the post.
I don't see any obvious problems. New JM shoots come out quite droopy but stand up as the leaves harden. Hard to be confident because of just one shot of a couple of leaves.

Rooting a trunk like this is highly unlikely IMHO. I would be potting the tree properly and taking good care of watering and sun to see if it recovers.

 

[Jupiter]

Could be that it is not in a pot? but maybe the photos are just taken for the post.
I don't see any obvious problems. New JM shoots come out quite droopy but stand up as the leaves harden. Hard to be confident because of just one shot of a couple of leaves.

Rooting a trunk like this is highly unlikely IMHO. I would be potting the tree properly and taking good care of watering and sun to see if it recovers.

It only just came out of the pot lol. When the shoot originally came out everything seemed normal though. They were upright and leaves weren't curled. They seemed to take a sudden dip. The other 3 JM I have are all looking great. Same soil. Similar watering naturally and same light exposure.. This one just seems to be off. I also think the picture of the roots is a little misleading. That was taken with a flash on so some of those roots look much brighter than they appear to the eye. Glad to hear that you don't see anything too obvious though. Maybe some paranoia on my part I suppose

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Yep, some Japanese and Trident Maple cultivar’s leaves do look sort of like that when first unfolding.

Yet your photos appear to be of a tree where the leaves are a bit stressed, especially considering your similar trees aren’t acting like this.

In cases of this natureI put the trees on the ground in cool shade with open sky above or on the ground under trees or bushes in strongly filtered sunlight and wet the ground around the area. The trees are left there until the leaves are fully extended and healthy looking, then eased into a sunnier situation.

btw I noticed you don’t have your location nor USDA zone entered on your profile. Please double click your icon on top of the page and enter this data…. just. This information really helps us to know the location of the tree is growing, especially in issues exactly like this…. and who knows, you may find another hobbyist that lives near you!

Good luck,
DSD sends

 

[Jupiter]

Sorry I thought I had added that info but apparently \i didn't. I actually grow them on my balcony but \i have it in a bit of shade. South facing so shade is hard to come by. Last year I had it in full sun the whole year. No leaf scorch or anything. Is it likely this tree will die? It's looking even worse today. Not even sure what would have caused this to begin with

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Hmm…. Not so good news…. Did it get frozen? Not sure of the outcome at this point.

See if you can get a couple chairs to totally block the sun.

Here’s normal spring growth.
Japanese maple



Vine maple



Good luck
DSD sends

 

[Jupiter]

Hmm…. Not so good news…. Did it get frozen? Not sure of the outcome at this point.

See if you can get a couple chairs to totally block the sun.

Here’s normal spring growth.
Japanese maple

View attachment 432154

Vine maple

View attachment 432153

Good luck
DSD sends

yeah I have a few things blocking out direct sunlight for now. Def looking rough though. those pictures more resemble the new shoots when they first came out. Not now though. I have a buddy that runs a local tree collection of a few thousand. Sent him the pics as well and he said it just looked underwatered.. Not sure because it was getting about a daily soaking. Just have to play it by ear I suppose for the time being.. fingers crossed

edit
It didn't get frozen as far as I was aware. Def had some cold temps but I did what I could to have them protected. All the other trees that were out there with it are doing very well. so I really have no idea why this one is looking so sad

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

If you’ve been watering daily and you feel the tree has been watered sufficiently the next obvious conclusion I would come to is root fungus….. Especially trees coming out of winter storage.

This would cause the tree not to uptake water properly. .. and make sense about not all trees being affected.

Things get a little nebulous at this point. If fungus, recovery is possible, yet not frequent.

My usual treatment for fungus is 3% H2O2 full strength. Use it like water. It’s kind of a Hail Mary for maple fungus though.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Jupiter]

If you’ve been watering daily and you feel the tree has been watered sufficiently the next obvious conclusion I would come to is root fungus….. Especially trees coming out of winter storage.

This would cause the tree not to uptake water properly. .. and make sense about not all trees being affected.

Things get a little nebulous at this point. If fungus, recovery is possible, yet not frequent.

My usual treatment for fungus is 3% H2O2 full strength. Use it like water. It’s kind of a Hail Mary for maple fungus though.

Cheers
DSD sendsWould doing this as a precaution have any negative side?

 

[Jupiter]

Would this cause any major issues if it by some chance wasn't root fungus? H2O2 just breaks down to normal water right? So should next watering I just do a hydrogen peroxide soak on it?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Yes. No issues I use it on “ER” trees infrequently and at a lower dose as a preventative regularly. Full strength 3% is only used by me once, with low dose in water 1 Tbsp / liter from then on.

Here’s the technical side if you would like to see it…. https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/es001726y

DSD sends

 

[Jupiter]

Yes. No issues I use it on “ER” trees infrequently and at a lower dose as a preventative regularly. Full strength 3% is only used by me once, with low dose in water 1 Tbsp / liter from then on.

Here’s the technical side if you would like to see it…. https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/es001726y

DSD sends

I appreciate the link! Going to be reading it here shortly while I enjoy a cold one lol I have already given it a thorough watering today. I am assuming it would be wise to wait until tomorrow? I feel like everyday it's looking worse so might it be a better idea to do it today? Here's a couple pics showing the decline. Phones a bit old so kinda crappy but what can ya do

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Hmm…. best to wait. See what tomorrow brings.

If it’s fungus the roots are at least partially compromised, so water sparingly. Kind of a fine line between too much and not enough.

At some point in your bonsai learning you get a bit of detachment in these situations. After all a tree has to be strong enough to meet the rigors of bonsai.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Hack Yeah!]

Hmm….

At some point in your bonsai learning you

Cheers
DSD sends

You collect a 100+ trees, or kill, and you don't think twice, lol

 

[Shibui]

Check the base of the trunk. Doesn't show up in the early photos but maybe I can see some black bark in the later shots?
Wilted leaves is a symptom. If that's what it is, this infection is relatively common and seems to be where JM are too wet during winter. Fungal infection moves up from roots and kills the bark around the base of the tree.
If caught early the tree can sometimes be saved but if black is already right round the trunk it's probably too late.

Fungal treatments won't harm the tree even if no fungal infection is present.

good luck.

 

[Jupiter]

Check the base of the trunk. Doesn't show up in the early photos but maybe I can see some black bark in the later shots?
Wilted leaves is a symptom. If that's what it is, this infection is relatively common and seems to be where JM are too wet during winter. Fungal infection moves up from roots and kills the bark around the base of the tree.
If caught early the tree can sometimes be saved but if black is already right round the trunk it's probably too late.

Fungal treatments won't harm the tree even if no fungal infection is present.

good luck.

Almost certain you nailed it right on the head. I noticed the same and it is really prominent today. I did a small scratch test and it is greyish(best way to describe it) where the cambium is. Farther up the trunk I did the same and it is still green. I have done the soak but I would wager it is going to be a buried tree. Does this mean the entire tree would be infected? What are the chances I could get away with snipping and getting some rooting powder on the cuttings? If somehow they managed to pull together would they carry this infection as well? Is this likely Verticillium?

 

[Shibui]

Almost certain you nailed it right on the head. I noticed the same and it is really prominent today. I did a small scratch test and it is greyish(best way to describe it) where the cambium is. Farther up the trunk I did the same and it is still green. I have done the soak but I would wager it is going to be a buried tree. Does this mean the entire tree would be infected? What are the chances I could get away with snipping and getting some rooting powder on the cuttings? If somehow they managed to pull together would they carry this infection as well? Is this likely Verticillium?

I've never bothered to work out an exact name because there are a number of problems that appear similar and the treatment and outcome are the same. Verticillium is one that appears to produce these symptoms so could very well be the case.
Grey/brown cambium is dead. Unless there is some part connecting roots to trunk that is healthy there is no hope. Usually by this stage the infection has spread right round the trunk so no water or nutrient can get to the branches and, even though cambium above is currently good, it is only a matter of time before it dies too. I've seen some trees recover but only if the damage was just starting. The tree cannot survive long enough for new bark to grow over the damaged area unless there is still a viable connection to roots below.

Not sure whether this infection spreads through the tree before signs show but I'd be reasonably confident the healthy parts are still clear. Some growers can root JM cuttings but it is not so easy and I don't even bother to try with healthy plants any more.
Many of these diseases spread with infected tools so whatever you do please try to remember to disinfect tools, hands, etc after touching this tree.
It does seem to need specific conditions to infect new trees but no sense helping it get to new hosts.

 

[Jupiter]

I've never bothered to work out an exact name because there are a number of problems that appear similar and the treatment and outcome are the same. Verticillium is one that appears to produce these symptoms so could very well be the case.
Grey/brown cambium is dead. Unless there is some part connecting roots to trunk that is healthy there is no hope. Usually by this stage the infection has spread right round the trunk so no water or nutrient can get to the branches and, even though cambium above is currently good, it is only a matter of time before it dies too. I've seen some trees recover but only if the damage was just starting. The tree cannot survive long enough for new bark to grow over the damaged area unless there is still a viable connection to roots below.

Not sure whether this infection spreads through the tree before signs show but I'd be reasonably confident the healthy parts are still clear. Some growers can root JM cuttings but it is not so easy and I don't even bother to try with healthy plants any more.
Many of these diseases spread with infected tools so whatever you do please try to remember to disinfect tools, hands, etc after touching this tree.
It does seem to need specific conditions to infect new trees but no sense helping it get to new hosts.

Yeah from what I can see I think this tree is a write off. I do have 1 cutting of this tree going from last year. Hoping some of these new ones will take. I put a few more in a seperate colander so I can make a little experiment out of it. Should be able to see for future reference whether or not the infoection, at this stage atleast, will indeed be spread throughout or is confined to the lower region of the tree. Thankfully this is the only tree showing anything right now. I might just give all the trees a H2O2 bath just as a precaution.