Japanese Maple air layer that didn't take

[Steez]

I have a Japanese Maple that I air layered this late spring / early summer. Cut off bark cambium etc and wrapped in sphagnum with foil. Kept it in indirect sun. The top (post layer) has been growing nicely but I have no roots at the cut point. Did it not take and if so why has the top continued in a healthy manner?
Secondly...What happens this winter?
I'm in Atlanta zone 7b
Any help appreciated
Steve

 

[Dav4]

I have a Japanese Maple that I air layered this late spring / early summer. Cut off bark cambium etc and wrapped in sphagnum with foil. Kept it in indirect sun. The top (post layer) has been growing nicely but I have no roots at the cut point. Did it not take and if so why has the top continued in a healthy manner?
Secondly...What happens this winter?
I'm in Atlanta zone 7b
Any help appreciated
Steve

Hey Steve. It's hard to say why your layer attempt failed without pictures (you should post some if you can), but I can make a few guesses. Common causes of failure include not removing the cambium in it's entirety when you cut away the bark, not making the ring of removed bark wide enough, or not keeping the moss/rooting medium constantly moist. The first two situations allow the bark to grow over the ring, and the third might prevent roots from growing. As far as why the top has continued to grow well despite the failed layer attempt, remember that the water wood supports the canopy...not the bark...so the top will continue to be supported by the original root system after the layer attempt is made, and this will continue through the summer whether the layer succeeds or not, as long as the roots remain strong enough. I don't know if you've looked at the layer yet but you might be surprised to see that the ring in the bark has been bridged...again, just guessing. If the layer didn't take, but the tree is still healthy, you'll just have to try again next year, and hopefully you'll have tweaked your technique and it'll go off without a hitch.

 

[sorce]

Steez!

Love it.

Welcome to Crazy.

Dav4 is correct.

Sorce

 

[j evans]

Welcome, I am going to give it a try on a JM and a M next spring. Hopefully I have learned enough from everyone else's attempts.

 

[M. Frary]

Welcome, I am going to give it a try on a JM and a M next spring. Hopefully I have learned enough from everyone else's attempts.

I know what JM is but what is M?

 

[j evans]

That is my abbreviation for a regular old maple, if we are using JM why not M?

 

[ColinFraser]

That is my abbreviation for a regular old maple, if we are using JM why not M?

Um, because there's no such thing as "regular old maple" maybe? What species do you mean?
Edit: this should, like totally be read with a sarcastic 'valley girl' accent, or whatever - but there's not a font for that.

That's like me saying "I have a Scottish Terrier and a regular terrier" - there are lots of kinds of maples and terriers, but as far as I know, no specific one of them is just called "maple" or "terrier"

 

[Steez]

Thanks folks. I posted after dark so I will get some pics today. I thought the water went through the cambium and I had some bizarre mutant JM.
I guess I didn't think that through. I've been doing this long enough that a basic like that shouldn't have got by me.
Its one of the only failed air layers I've done. Maybe I've been LUCKY
Thanks again and pics later today

 

[thumblessprimate1]

I know what JM is but what is M?

M is your first name. Duh!

Did it not take and if so why has the top continued in a healthy manner?
Secondly...What happens this winter?

Nothing to worry about in the winter. Try to air layer again next spring. I may try a third time on one of my maples; this time, I might use a tourniquet.

 

[M. Frary]

M is your first name. Duh!

I didn't even make the connection until you pointed it out.

 

[Steez]

Looks like it tried to bridge. never made the connection across the layer

 

[Grant Hamby]

I just checked a layer that was not putting out any roots, turns out it fully bridged. I had made up my mind to just cut it off and try rooting it as a cutting since I only really cared about the lower portion. Now that it's bridged, should I just leave it exposed and try again next spring?

 

[0soyoung]

Now that it's bridged, should I just leave it exposed and try again next spring?

Yes, you can leave it exposed.

If you want to try layering again next spring, cut the girdle just above/below this one. The wood in the area of your original girdle has a very irregular surface and removal of the bark and cambium will be extra-difficult. When you make this new girdle, scrape it down to remove all traces of green, maybe even wipe it with 70% isopropyl alcohol, optionally dust the top of the new girdle with rooting hormone, and let it sit exposed (uncovered) for a day or two (or three) before you pack your rooting medium around it. This is insurance that any cambium cells in the girdle are dead, dead, dead so that you won't have a bridging problem again.

BTW, you can cut the girdle before the tree leafs out, just for convenience; in fact you could do it now, but there is little point because nothing much in the way of growing roots is going to happen until your tree has foliage.

 

[Grant Hamby]

Yes, you can leave it exposed.

If you want to try layering again next spring, cut the girdle just above/below this one. The wood in the area of your original girdle has a very irregular surface and removal of the bark and cambium will be extra-difficult. When you make this new girdle, scrape it down to remove all traces of green, maybe even wipe it with 70% isopropyl alcohol, optionally dust the top of the new girdle with rooting hormone, and let it sit exposed (uncovered) for a day or two (or three) before you pack your rooting medium around it. This is insurance that any cambium cells in the girdle are dead, dead, dead so that you won't have a bridging problem again.

BTW, you can cut the girdle before the tree leafs out, just for convenience; in fact you could do it now, but there is little point because nothing much in the way of growing roots is going to happen until your tree has foliage.

Thanks! As far as rooting medium, I'm considering something besides sphagnum. Seems like I've heard of people using vermiculite with success.. The tree is in the front yard, so I could always wire a pot onto it since I can water it whenever I need to. Any suggestions?

 

[0soyoung]

Thanks! As far as rooting medium, I'm considering something besides sphagnum. Seems like I've heard of people using vermiculite with success.. The tree is in the front yard, so I could always wire a pot onto it since I can water it whenever I need to. Any suggestions?

When I can use a pot, I prefer to just use my favorite bonsai substrate. When sphagnum is used (and there is nothing wrong with that), the roots are fleshy and fragile. Some amount of time growing in dirt, potting soil, or a favorite bonsai substrate is required to 'harden' the roots - using this substrate for rooting just saves time.

I haven't used vermiculite or pearlite, though they are commonly used rooting media for cuttings, so I don't know if there is an issue analogous to using sphagnum. Otherwise, as long as the media remains moist and has a high air filled porosity, it doesn't matter what one uses as long as it can remain in contact with the upper part of the girdle (where the roots will come from).

 

[Grant Hamby]

When I can use a pot, I prefer to just use my favorite bonsai substrate. When sphagnum is used (and there is nothing wrong with that), the roots are fleshy and fragile. Some amount of time growing in dirt, potting soil, or a favorite bonsai substrate is required to 'harden' the roots - using this substrate for rooting just saves time.

I haven't used vermiculite or pearlite, though they are commonly used rooting media for cuttings, so I don't know if there is an issue analogous to using sphagnum. Otherwise, as long as the media remains moist and has a high air filled porosity, it doesn't matter what one uses as long as it can remain in contact with the upper part of the girdle (where the roots will come from).

Awesome. Well I may just use my bonsai mix in a clear food container so I can see when it's full of roots. When you use a pot, do you keep it in there all season after you separate or do you take it out and put it in a new pot at separation?

 

[0soyoung]

When you use a pot, do you keep it in there all season after you separate or do you take it out and put it in a new pot at separation?

I take it out and put it in a larger nursery pot at separation (back fill with the same substrate). Then the following spring I clean it up when I repot - comb out the roots, remove the stem stub and (usually) put it into a ceramic bonsai pot. This is just because the harvest/separation time isn't optimal for doing heavy root work.

 

[Grant Hamby]

I take it out and put it in a larger nursery pot at separation (back fill with the same substrate). Then the following spring I clean it up when I repot - comb out the roots, remove the stem stub and (usually) put it into a ceramic bonsai pot. This is just because the harvest/separation time isn't optimal for doing heavy root work.

Cool. That's kinda what I figured but I wanted to make sure! Thanks for the info!

 

[Eric Group]

Thanks! As far as rooting medium, I'm considering something besides sphagnum. Seems like I've heard of people using vermiculite with success.. The tree is in the front yard, so I could always wire a pot onto it since I can water it whenever I need to. Any suggestions?

I think perlite works better than vermiculite, and I have had some success with bonsai soil as well...

If you want to layer this one, just ring the bark again- a little deeper, and wrap a wire tightly around the ringed bark area up close to where you want the roots to pop.

 

[Grant Hamby]

I think perlite works better than vermiculite, and I have had some success with bonsai soil as well...

If you want to layer this one, just ring the bark again- a little deeper, and wrap a wire tightly around the ringed bark area up close to where you want the roots to pop.

Okay, thanks! When you use perlite, do you have to top it with something to keep it from flying everywhere in the wind or watering?