Jade plant pot size?

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Hello all,
I'm not exactly sure if this is a "tropical" but it seemed to fit.

Ok I've had this Jade for a few years and it's one of my most beautiful pieces. This summer I met a guy with a giant Jade plant (maybe 4ft tall and almost as wide.) I was definitely jealous!

So now Im on a mission to grow a giant. I guess I'm wondering if I need to put it in a bigger pot. I love the effect of the small pot and I love the setup that it's in. But will it grow any bigger in this small pot? I've heard jades like to be slightly rootbound, so I thought there was a chance it would continue to grow as is. But if I can maximize growth by repotting I would like to do so!

Thanks for the tips!
~Forrest
 

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@ForrestGump

I've had success continually potting them up bigger as they fill the pot. I had a Crassula Ovata that did nothing for 4 years in a very small terra cotta pot (probably around 2" diameter pot). I potted it up in a bigger pot and added Espoma's Biotone, and literally had to repot it 3 times in about a 6 month period and it's probably due for another repot. I had to water the plant every 5 days so I knew it was ready for a bigger pot. I finally got my dwc project up and running and I added some pictures in your dwc citrus thread and there's a picture of my ovata there. I say when it dries out pretty quickly it's ready for a bigger pot. I can attest to how well Biotone works, if you can find it I definitely suggest using it, mine literally did nothing for years and then I used it and it literally exploded with growth.
 
Crassula grinds to a halt when it runs out of growing space. This can be good for bonsai purposes (or just for having a low-maintenance house plant), but not so much for thickening the trunk. If you keep up-potting, they'll keep growing, and the trunk will keep thickening.

Also, you can prune just below any node to get an almost guaranteed rooted cutting. And you can prune just above any node to get an almost guaranteed 1-2 new branches. They behave incredibly predictably, so if you want the trunk of your behemoth to look differently than it does, don't be afraid to prune and re-grow.
 
@ForrestGump

I've had success continually potting them up bigger as they fill the pot. I had a Crassula Ovata that did nothing for 4 years in a very small terra cotta pot (probably around 2" diameter pot). I potted it up in a bigger pot and added Espoma's Biotone, and literally had to repot it 3 times in about a 6 month period and it's probably due for another repot. I had to water the plant every 5 days so I knew it was ready for a bigger pot. I finally got my dwc project up and running and I added some pictures in your dwc citrus thread and there's a picture of my ovata there. I say when it dries out pretty quickly it's ready for a bigger pot. I can attest to how well Biotone works, if you can find it I definitely suggest using it, mine literally did nothing for years and then I used it and it literally exploded with growth.

I'm sure Biotone is a great product, but its important to remember that correlation does not always equate to causation.

Crassula typically explode with growth when you put them in a bigger pot, fertilizer or not. The fertilizer probably helps, but that behavior is a fundamental characteristic of that species. When they have the right temperature and the room to grow, they grow. And if during the growing season they're using up all the water you give them and you immediately give them more, they just grow faster. I've seen very similar behavior on neglected jades that did not receive any fertilizer at all, they just had a big pot to grow in.

Again, not dissing the product, just pointing out that they kind of do that anyway.
 
Hm.. I have a different experience. If you water, feed and give it sun & heat, it will grow. Even if it has no space for the roots. Looks to me that you have it in an enourmous pot already. Just get it used to being in full sun, and water it well & feed. It should grow well.
 
@music~maker
I'm sure there's a lot of different factors at play but I've done a lot of side by side experiments with a lot of different plants using Biotone and I can't ignore the results after using this product, with my experience it seems to be a boost. I've heard about a lot of plants that do better being tight in their pot, but I suspect that has a lot to do with people over watering their plants that have a lot of excess soil. In my opinion plants perform better given some room to grow, being grown tight in a pot is more of a adaptation; the plants may be able to be grown with limited root space but I doubt they prefer it.
 
My jade wasn't doing anything for years, then I repotted and boosted the soil and that equaled explosive growth; the correlation is somewhere in the middle of repotting and adding fertilizer with mycorrhiza:). But yeah, unless Forrestgump's jade has filled the pot with roots I wouldn't expect repotting into a larger pot to be beneficial, then with poor watering habits it could be more of a detriment.
 
Definitely not trying to be argumentative, it kind of reads like that though.
 
@music~maker
I've heard about a lot of plants that do better being tight in their pot, but I suspect that has a lot to do with people over watering their plants that have a lot of excess soil. In my opinion plants perform better given some room to grow, being grown tight in a pot is more of a adaptation; the plants may be able to be grown with limited root space but I doubt they prefer it.

Jades are kind of remarkable in that they can thrive under almost any conditions, and they tend to just scale down when they are in a constrained space. So it's really about what do you actually want the tree to do next. I've been growing jade for many years in all types of soil and many sizes of pots, and the common rule is, if you want explosive growth, up-pot and put it outside during the growing season. If you just want strong, but normal, growth, leave it in the pot its in, and water and fertilize. If you want to kill them quickly, keep their soil wet and/or expose them to sub-freezing temperatures. ;-)

One thing people often overlook is the part about putting them outside for the entire growing season. They grow much, much faster that way. Again, with or without fertilizer. OP's tree kind of looks like it's been growing indoors as a house plant for a while. Even if it doesn't need a bigger pot yet, it probably wouldn't hurt to at least do a light re-pot, fill back in with proper bonsai soil, and get rid of all those large stones. After that, completely soak the soil with every watering, then let it dry all the way out before watering again. Jades LOVE some dry time between watering. The only wrong way to water these is to keep the soil moist all the time. One of the least fussy trees I've ever seen in that regard.

I kind of agree with you on the pot size. That pot can probably sustain more growth than what it has. We're talking about a plant where you can root almost any sized cutting, so cleaning up the roots and putting right back into this size pot is probably just as good as up-potting.

But if OP is going for a monster, this pot will be the limiting factor sooner rather than later. Within a year or two tops.

@music~makerI'm sure there's a lot of different factors at play but I've done a lot of side by side experiments with a lot of different plants using Biotone and I can't ignore the results after using this product, with my experience it seems to be a boost.

Fair enough. Out of curiosity, have you compared side by side with other fertilizers or just Biotone vs. not using anything else? In other words, is this just anecdotal evidence or were these in any way controlled experiments? Not trying to bust your chops, I've just seen a few too many fertilizer/supplement/nutrient ads in my life, and I've grown very skeptical.
 
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@music~maker
Very good information :)

I understand you're skeptical, I too am leery about snake-oil pitches. I don't think you're busting my chops, open discussions and bouncing ideas/info off each other is what this forum is about :D. These were mostly done using Biotone and the other plants receiving nothing. Most of the experiments were done for our customers, definitely used controls but not lab quality standards. We mostly did veggies: same soil with no added fertilizer, same variety of plant and about the same age, same sized pot and same light exposure, and more or less same amount of water. The rep. from Espoma actually used our pictures and information (for what it's worth) to promote their product. I've found though that everything I've used Biotone on has done very well. I now use it exclusively when I repot all of my trees, and haven't used anything else for a while now. It is my job to sell a lot of different products (no commission) but this is really the only product I stand behind because I can't ignore my results. So you may say I'm biased but from my experience it is worthwhile to try.

Last spring I bought a 6" pot with a trident maple starter, probably about 12" tall. I had to repot it three times before it was even August and now it's in a 7 gallon pot and over 8' tall and will probably need another repot this spring. I know tridents grow fast and are vigorous but some of that vigor has to be from the fertilizer (really I think it's the added beneficial fungus and bacteria). I know there is always a lot of hype with products, but my evidence I guess is mostly anecdotal because I haven't put it up against other products but I'm definitely a believer, but I may try to do that this spring!

After re-reading my post, I've come to the conclusion that I am totally biased...:eek: but I think for good reasons. I like what I've seen using it and I'll probably be riding that train for a while :p
 
@leatherback
Yeah, definitely. I don't like being pushy with products at work but I love this product so I try to share my experiences in the hope other people will have the same success.
 
@music~maker
These were mostly done using Biotone and the other plants receiving nothing.

Well, it sounds like the product is at least decent, but the fact that you sell the stuff and have only really compared it against using nothing while being such an enthusiastic cheerleader really only increases my skepticism. Nothing against you personally, and I do appreciate that you openly admit your bias, but I'd have to see a legitimate comparison with other types of fertilizer to know if the enthusiastic claims are warranted.

I've seen very strong results from just frequent use of Miracle Grow and modern substrate, and there's definitely no added fungus or bacteria in that. I've tried lots of different fertilizers over the years, including Biotone, and while I do have some preferences, at some level, nitrogen is nitrogen. I can't say that I've seen vastly different results in the trees themselves from any specific fertilizer. But I tend to just rotate through a variety of things throughout the season, so I guess it's possible I just haven't noticed.

If I recall, though, Biotone is the one that gets really moldy after it's been sitting in the soil for a week or so, which I'm not a huge fan of, but it does seem to work reasonably well other than that.
 
@music~maker
Fair enough, I'm going to try an experiment with other slow release granular fertilizers. I couldn't get reliable results using liquids because I would have to fertilize at least weekly. I may try putting it up against osmocote, and I'll see what else we have that's not liquid. Now that im thinking about it, we don't sell too many other granular fertilizers other than for lawns. Do you have any suggestions for common/easily obtainable granular fertilizers for me to try?

Yeah biotone will get moldy if you over do it and don't put a layer of soil above the blended soil (in containers), it's chicken manure based so that's to be expected. In the ground though I haven't noticed much mold on the surface.

I agree, at a certain point available nitrogen is available nitrogen, but my hypothesis is that the beneficial bacteria and fungus is what is making the big difference. I guess to get accurate data I should probably use the same fertilizer (without fungus and bacteria) and inoculate one sample and then compare results.
 
@music~maker
Fair enough, I'm going to try an experiment with other slow release granular fertilizers. I couldn't get reliable results using liquids because I would have to fertilize at least weekly. I may try putting it up against osmocote, and I'll see what else we have that's not liquid. Now that im thinking about it, we don't sell too many other granular fertilizers other than for lawns. Do you have any suggestions for common/easily obtainable granular fertilizers for me to try?

Yeah biotone will get moldy if you over do it and don't put a layer of soil above the blended soil (in containers), it's chicken manure based so that's to be expected. In the ground though I haven't noticed much mold on the surface.

It still might be interesting to compare against using liquid, just as a baseline. Then you'd at least know how it fairs against the most commonly used alternative. One way or the other, I'm sure that will occasionally come in handy when speaking with customers.

Osmocote would be a decent thing to try since I think it's just straight up fertilizer and widely available. It might be a bit tricky to ensure that you're getting comparable release rates, but it would at least be an interesting comparison. Miracle Gro has a similar product called Shake n Feed, iirc.

My favorite granular fertilizer by far is some stuff that my local bonsai shop sells. It's supposedly their own line of fertilizers, so it's probably not really something that's widely available (unless they're just white labeling another product, but idk). It's somewhat similar to the Biotone pellets, but it's specifically designed for bonsai and has much smaller granules, and I think it may be sterilized or something because it does not grow mold at all. It's called Green Dragon from Bonsai West (www.bonsaiwest.com) if you're really curious. I usually use that whenever I have it on hand, and if it runs out before I re-supply it, I use Biotone as a back-up, and even then, I generally only use Biotone on my early stage trees because I don't want my nicer ones to have mold all over them. Growth results have always seemed somewhat similar regardless. The big difference is how it breaks down.

The other granulars I currently use are more specialty things like soil acidifiers for azaleas, so that wouldn't a worthwhile comparison. I've tried other things in the past as I opportunistically found them at shops, but the things I've mentioned above are the ones I've been using most recently. But there are lots of granulars out there - if you really want to experiment, I would just source a bunch of different kinds and go from there.

@music~makerI agree, at a certain point available nitrogen is available nitrogen, but my hypothesis is that the beneficial bacteria and fungus is what is making the big difference. I guess to get accurate data I should probably use the same fertilizer (without fungus and bacteria) and inoculate one sample and then compare results.

If you have the ability to do the experiment that way, that would probably at least get you more accurate results. It could be a tricky thing to test, though. If the fungus/bacteria combo does in fact help, it could very well be species-specific, and you'd have to do the experiment across a variety of species to know if it lives up to the claims across the board, or is simply equivalent to regular fertilizer for some things.

And since comparing against other fertilizers might have different release rates per volume, comparing apples to apples could be a little bit tricky. You'd probably need to have a whole lot of trees, and not only compare brand against brand, but different application rates and volumes of each. And to be accurate, you'd need a reasonable number of instances of each experiment to make sure that any observations you make aren't just flukes. It's just complicated and expensive enough to do it correctly that I doubt most companies would go through the trouble. That's why I generally assume most such claims are just marketing.

If you do even a scaled down version of the experiment, you should publish the results.
 
Sorry @ForrestGump for hijacking your thread, but this is all an attempt to get your Jade fat! Regardless, I think continuously repotting into appropriate sized containers is the best way (and maybe add your favorite fertilizer too).
 
@music~maker
To get the results I'm looking for, this is actually going to be quite complicated and I don't think I would have the time at work to do this... I could spin this experiment a little though for the "benefit of the customers." This would have to be a VERY basic experiment that will still have some wild variables... I guess I would have to work out the npk ratios and figure out at what dose each fertilizer is actually giving to the plants. The more I think about it, the more complicated this is becoming. Maybe this will just have to be a side by side, and let the customers determine what is better for their situation.

The liquid versus granular will be even harder to compare; one thought I have is that these plants will be over-head irrigated, which will release more of the granular fertilizer but will leech out the containers being watered using liquid fertilizer. And, I might have to figure out target ppm for each brand of fertilizer and try to hit the targets as close as possible.

I will probably not get the data that people here will find conclusive, but it could help point people in the right direction.

Sorry for the rambling, I don't have internet at home and I'm at work trying to get out of here :eek:
 
@cbroad and anyone else,
I’ve read quite a bit of this string but I still have a few questions. I acquired quite a large, and I’m assuming old, jade from my grandpa. The container that it was in was massive and basically hiding the beauty of the plant. I moved it to a smaller terra-cotta container that still seems quite large. I am concerned about it tipping/ripping itself out of the dirt because the root ball is so small and shallow. I was actually shocked to see how little root system was present. The jade looks very healthy and has many, many new branches. Any advice or knowledge would be much appreciated. (Is the pot “too big,” why is the root system so shallow, how should I prevent it from falling out of pot?) Thank you!
 

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@santos
I actually had that problem with a tall jade that I repotted in a terra cotta pot too, I had to put a couple stakes in the pot to support and stabilize the jade while it rooted in.
 
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So now Im on a mission to grow a giant.

If you come down here I will give you one of the ones I have growing in my landscape. Let me know ahead of time so I can water it and make it look pretty :) And bring a big car or SUV because they aren't light.

No kidding they grow wild here and are one of the few plants that will grow without water. Not saying they are pretty without water... but they don't die :)
 
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