info about eastern redsedar..

[Oboedatree]

hello! ive never done bonsai but am doing research on what tree to get. ive chosen the redsedar because it lives locally and apparently they are beginner friendly. just curious on if that is true or not. some detail on why/why not its good also appreciated!

thanks!!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Eastern redcedar is the common name for Juniperus virginiana. These are tough junipers that should be able to survive some serious abuse.

However.. They have a couple issues:
1) their foliage tends to revert from scale (worm like) to prickly juvenile foliage after pruning.
2) they are very susceptible to apple cedar rust and other juniper rusts. Rust is a fungal disease that makes the trunks, foliage and branches explode with an orange or yellow, or brown gunk, it can not be cured ever.
3) not only does the foliage revert to juvenile very easily, it doesn't change back to adult foliage very fast either.
4) their foliage, in all cases, is considered to be coarse. That means that it is open, sparse. That makes it difficult to do fine details. But foliage can be replaced by grafting, that doesn't cure the rust susceptibility though.

Should you then just not try it? Nah bro! Go for it! They are great learner specimens and playing around with them can be a lot of fun. I believe there are rust-resistant ones out there, with fine foliage, we just haven't cultivated them yet.
Junipers are fun.

 

[Gabler]

The consensus seems to be that they're bad for bonsai, but those of us living in its native range have all tried growing them at some point. They're hard to kill, but it's also hard to turn them into great bonsai.

 

[Oboedatree]

Will for sure try them out to learn on and then, when I have the skill to make something worth looking at, I'll switch to a different species haha

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Will for sure try them out to learn on and then, when I have the skill to make something worth looking at, I'll switch to a different species haha

I've got quite a few on my property, including one that is 60'+ tall. They are striking trees in landscape.

 

[Oboedatree]

Will definitely take that into account, thanks!

 

[WNC Bonsai]

It is possible to find one that is a silk purse made from a sow’s ear. This one is in the NC Arboretum collection in Asheville.

 

[Oboedatree]

It is possible to find one that is a silk purse made from a sow’s ear. This one is in the NC Arboretum collection in Asheville.

View attachment 577232

I’m going to be honest I did have to look up that phrase haha, but that is a Beautiful tree. Nice to see that the results aren’t all bad!

 

[rockm]

A search on "red cedar bonsai" usually turns up one or two very nice specimens----and that's about it. There's a reason this species has no real "great" specimens that have been worked on for years. It sucks as bonsai material. The results above are not typical and require a lot of know-how to achieve. Red cedar in the wild is mostly telephone pole shaped with extremely uninteresting trunks and the foliage is a beee otch to work, since it persistently reverts to prickly unmanageable tufts at the ends of gangly branching. It's pretty far from "friendly beginner material." It's just common and readily available to waste time on.

Sorry to be negative. But you likely have species that are exponentially better as bonsai all around you in Kentucky. Hornbeam, beech, crabapple, pitch pine, hawthorn, even Va. Pine (and a dozen others are more easily collected and adapt very well to container culture and bonsai techniques). If you want an extremely "beginner friendly" species, try Carolina hornbeam. More easily collected and develops very quickly. I wouldn't waste time or space on red cedar (and I've tried it a few times with junky annoying results) UNLESS i could find one with a trunk with some interest--and it would have to be VERY interesting to justify the time and effort in digging it up.

Sow's ear doesn't do this species justice as bonsai material. A better descriptive comparison is at the other end of the pig...

 

[WNC Bonsai]

To continue the porcine metaphor I think @rockm is saying putting a red cedar in a bonsai pot is equivalent to putting lipstick on a pig—in the end you still just have a pig with nice red lips!

 

[Joe Dupre']

I really like them, despite their shortcomings. Don't expect shimpaku or procumbens type foliage. The foliage doesn't really mound OR run. It has an open, airy feel to it. Other than that, it behaves much like other junipers. Here's my best one ......about 6 years from collection. Since collecting them, recent research suggests that the red cedars in my area are most likely southern red cedar...........a very close variant of the ERC.

 

[rockm]

I really like them, despite their shortcomings. Don't expect shimpaku or procumbens type foliage. The foliage doesn't really mound OR run. It has an open, airy feel to it. Other than that, it behaves much like other junipers. Here's my best one ......about 6 years from collection. Since collecting them, recent research suggests that the red cedars in my area are most likely southern red cedar...........a very close variant of the ERC.

Worth asking how long you’ve been doing bonsai and is this your first tree?

I’d bet longer than a year and likely not your first tree.

Also worth asking what it takes to get sustained adult foliage instead of the spiky junk this species typically produces. Also did you dig this yourself and what’s the aftercare like and how long before you worked the tree?

I ask all this because it’s not beginner stuff even if you like the species. It’s not easy. Your tree shows your talent, not the worthiness of the material. Getting those results in spite of the numerous problems is not what beginners should expect.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Worth asking how long you’ve been doing bonsai and is this your first tree?

I’d bet longer than a year and likely not your first tree.

Also worth asking what it takes to get sustained adult foliage instead of the spiky junk this species typically produces. Also did you dig this yourself and what’s the aftercare like and how long before you worked the tree?

I ask all this because it’s not beginner stuff even if you like the species. It’s not easy. Your tree shows your talent, not the worthiness of the material. Getting those results in spite of the numerous problems is not what beginners should expect.

This is what it looked like when I collected it about 6 years ago after an hour of intense pruning and potting. I'm less than 10 years in bonsai. This tree is about no. 75 or so of about 25 different species..............mostly collected native specimens. Juvenile foliage comes mainly the first couple of years. I just let it grow, get the tree healthy, and the juvenile foliage is gradually replaced further back on the branch with scale foliage. This tree still throws juvenile foliage if I cut it back too aggressively, which is uncommon in its present state. My "secret" is I don't pay too much attention to rules, guidelines or "expert" advice. I look at how the tree responds to procedures. A lot of my style is "feel", which does not translate into English very well. LOL.

 

[Joe Dupre']

I collected it myself less than 8 feet from a busy highway. Aftercare was pretty much like any collected tree. I normally wait until halfway the first summer to work on new trees. When the tree is exploding new growth, that's my signal to do just about anything.......pruning vigorous shoots, a little carving, a little wiring, etc. If I remember, that front branch facing the viewer was cut off and carved the first year.

Re: not following many rules. This tree needed this approach. It flies in the face of many "traditional" bonsai norms. I treat most of my trees like Ryan Neil treats a gnarled, twisted, deadwood-riddled mountain juniper. I try to get the best "I" can out of what's there.

 

[Oboedatree]

A search on "red cedar bonsai" usually turns up one or two very nice specimens----and that's about it. There's a reason this species has no real "great" specimens that have been worked on for years. It sucks as bonsai material. The results above are not typical and require a lot of know-how to achieve. Red cedar in the wild is mostly telephone pole shaped with extremely uninteresting trunks and the foliage is a beee otch to work, since it persistently reverts to prickly unmanageable tufts at the ends of gangly branching. It's pretty far from "friendly beginner material." It's just common and readily available to waste time on.

Sorry to be negative. But you likely have species that are exponentially better as bonsai all around you in Kentucky. Hornbeam, beech, crabapple, pitch pine, hawthorn, even Va. Pine (and a dozen others are more easily collected and adapt very well to container culture and bonsai techniques). If you want an extremely "beginner friendly" species, try Carolina hornbeam. More easily collected and develops very quickly. I wouldn't waste time or space on red cedar (and I've tried it a few times with junky annoying results) UNLESS i could find one with a trunk with some interest--and it would have to be VERY interesting to justify the time and effort in digging it up.

Sow's ear doesn't do this species justice as bonsai material. A better descriptive comparison is at the other end of the pig...

hornbeam it is!

 

[Oboedatree]

I collected it myself less than 8 feet from a busy highway. Aftercare was pretty much like any collected tree. I normally wait until halfway the first summer to work on new trees. When the tree is exploding new growth, that's my signal to do just about anything.......pruning vigorous shoots, a little carving, a little wiring, etc. If I remember, that front branch facing the viewer was cut off and carved the first year.

Re: not following many rules. This tree needed this approach. It flies in the face of many "traditional" bonsai norms. I treat most of my trees like Ryan Neil treats a gnarled, twisted, deadwood-riddled mountain juniper. I try to get the best "I" can out of what's there.

sounds like there kind of bad species, bet i can find better easier.

 

[Joe Dupre']

sounds like there kind of bad species, bet i can find better easier.

There are definitely better species for bonsai. The ones you see "everyone" using are used because they are more user friendly. I would maybe try an ERC in addition to, not instead of other, better species.

 

[Oboedatree]

will for sure try it, but most likely when i have my feet on the ground and am not just throwing random things at the problem haha.