I shamelessly copied Smoke's 5 trees in a hole project...

Fonz

Fonz

Chumono
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Pulderbos, Belgium
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Heck, I”m going to copy both of you. I checked my tridents and Jmaps today and they are all looking good. I have 14 tridents and 20 Jmaps to play with. Let’s see an update!
 
Smoke said:
I share the bonsai stuff with no problem
Click to expand...

very grateful of this, but now i know how you can be so efficient with your trees, you left your wizard’s hat in plain sight! :p
 

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derek7745 said:
very grateful of this, but now i know how you can be so efficient with your trees, you left your wizard’s hat in plain sight! :p
Click to expand...
Thats pretty observant. Actually if you look at the position of the tree, the pot is turned sideways to take a picture of the tree "moving forward" like in the controversial post that @Adair M was rather chatty in. My point is that I do not train my trees to look like this. It is a natural phenomenon of working the apex over years. Nothing more. The reason all the super duper Japanese ( and American for that matter) trees look like that is that they have been working the apex for decades.

In the end I took 15 pictures of trees that had forward facing apex, and apex over the base. I didn't see a reason to move forward with the post. I am not an elitist and do not train my trees in that way. Since the apex move forward due to working the tree over a period of years, I figure that all those that find this fascinating will find that out over the due coarse of working a tree for a longer period of time on their own just like I did.
 
Smoke said:
Thats pretty observant. Actually if you look at the position of the tree, the pot is turned sideways to take a picture of the tree "moving forward" like in the controversial post that @Adair M was rather chatty in. My point is that I do not train my trees to look like this. It is a natural phenomenon of working the apex over years. Nothing more. The reason all the super duper Japanese ( and American for that matter) trees look like that is that they have been working the apex for decades.

In the end I took 15 pictures of trees that had forward facing apex, and apex over the base. I didn't see a reason to move forward with the post. I am not an elitist and do not train my trees in that way. Since the apex move forward due to working the tree over a period of years, I figure that all those that find this fascinating will find that out over the due coarse of working a tree for a longer period of time on their own just like I did.
Click to expand...
There’s nothing “elitist” about a forward moving tree or apex. It’s just that, for whatever reason, trees just look better when they do.

You say you didn’t consciously design your trees to have a forward lean. “It just happened”. Well, I’m sure that each time you messed with your tree, you tried to make it look as nice as possible. Apparently, over time, that resulted in a forward lean. And, not just once, virtually all your trees, right?

So, now, after all your years of experience, wouldn’t you say it’s reasonable to say that having trees lean forward makes for an attractive tree? Just because you didn’t consciously style it that way “to follow the rules” doesnt mean the rule (guideline) is invalid.

You’ve unintentionally proved the point that forward leaning trees is the way to go! Thanks, Smoke!
 
Adair M said:
There’s nothing “elitist” about a forward moving tree or apex. It’s just that, for whatever reason, trees just look better when they do.

You say you didn’t consciously design your trees to have a forward lean. “It just happened”. Well, I’m sure that each time you messed with your tree, you tried to make it look as nice as possible. Apparently, over time, that resulted in a forward lean. And, not just once, virtually all your trees, right?

So, now, after all your years of experience, wouldn’t you say it’s reasonable to say that having trees lean forward makes for an attractive tree? Just because you didn’t consciously style it that way “to follow the rules” doesnt mean the rule (guideline) is invalid.

You’ve unintentionally proved the point that forward leaning trees is the way to go! Thanks, Smoke!
Click to expand...
Actually you have a superiority complex and need to go back and read your post in detail. In all honesty you proved my point as well as BVF.

I don't think you quite understand my position here. Which is usual cause I don't think you read my posts properly like a lot of people here. We are saying the same thing. You say you do it on purpose I say it happens by happy accident. I don't train my trees to have a forward lean. I do train many of my trees to be EXACTLY over the root base ON PURPOSE. I do have to work at that.

Adair M said:
And, not just once, virtually all your trees, right?
Click to expand...
You are the definition of an elitist. You suppose too much...stay in your own lane ..dude..
 
Smoke said:
Actually you have a superiority complex and need to go back and read your post in detail. In all honesty you proved my point as well as BVF.

I don't think you quite understand my position here. Which is usual cause I don't think you read my posts properly like a lot of people here. We are saying the same thing. You say you do it on purpose I say it happens by happy accident. I don't train my trees to have a forward lean. I do train many of my trees to be EXACTLY over the root base ON PURPOSE. I do have to work at that.
Click to expand...

So...presumably (if I'm reading your post correctly) you have some trees where the apex is exactly over the root base with no forward lean. If that is the case - do you find trees styled this
way to be any less effective in conveying whatever impression you wish to convey? Do you ever find yourself looking at one of these (upright apex trees) and thinking "I need to move
that apex forward, it just doesn't work"?

The original intent of that thread wasn't to prove that the apex should not lean forward or that it should be upright or lean back, it was whether there are cases where having an upright
apex made more sense. It seems like you might have some examples of the upright case that could be useful.
 
@Smoke Do you prefer a 'serene' tree image over a dynamic one? Placing the apex nearly always over the base on most of your trees is a little formulaic.
 
I shamelessly copied Smoke's 5 trees in a hole project...

Take half a sheet of paper towel. Fold it in half (so that it is half as long), then in half again. Moisten with a few drops of water (or 300ppm to 1% peroxide solution). Open the last fold and lay on a 1"x2" piece of plastic. Arrange the seeds on one side of the fold. Dust the seeds with GA3. Lightly mist. Fold the packet closed with the seeds separated by the plastic from the damp paper towel. Place into a plastic sandwich or ziploc bag - don't seal it, leave it open. Place additional packets, if any, in the bag and place the works into your refrigerator. At a convenient time, approximately one year later, remove the bag from the refrigerator. Remove germinated seeds and plant them. After one week nearly 100% of the seed should have sprouted and been planted.

We grew them on oak and cherry logs and they tasted a little different as a result. Between the two I prefer the oak logs which I think were red oak. Our logs were about 6” diameter and petered out after abiut 3 years. I had to soak each log for 24 hours to get them to produce and I just got tired of having to put each one in a plastic rain barrel full of water and then drag them out the next day. A 3’ long log saturated with water gets pretty heavy!
 
0soyoung said:
I shamelessly copied Smoke's 5 trees in a hole project...

Take half a sheet of paper towel. Fold it in half (so that it is half as long), then in half again. Moisten with a few drops of water (or 300ppm to 1% peroxide solution). Open the last fold and lay on a 1"x2" piece of plastic. Arrange the seeds on one side of the fold. Dust the seeds with GA3. Lightly mist. Fold the packet closed with the seeds separated by the plastic from the damp paper towel. Place into a plastic sandwich or ziploc bag - don't seal it, leave it open. Place additional packets, if any, in the bag and place the works into your refrigerator. At a convenient time, approximately one year later, remove the bag from the refrigerator. Remove germinated seeds and plant them. After one week nearly 100% of the seed should have sprouted and been planted.

We grew them on oak and cherry logs and they tasted a little different as a result. Between the two I prefer the oak logs which I think were red oak. Our logs were about 6” diameter and petered out after abiut 3 years. I had to soak each log for 24 hours to get them to produce and I just got tired of having to put each one in a plastic rain barrel full of water and then drag them out the next day. A 3’ long log saturated with water gets pretty heavy!
Click to expand...
WTF?
 
Smoke said:
Actually you have a superiority complex and need to go back and read your post in detail. In all honesty you proved my point as well as BVF.

I don't think you quite understand my position here. Which is usual cause I don't think you read my posts properly like a lot of people here. We are saying the same thing. You say you do it on purpose I say it happens by happy accident. I don't train my trees to have a forward lean. I do train many of my trees to be EXACTLY over the root base ON PURPOSE. I do have to work at that.

You are the definition of an elitist. You suppose too much...stay in your own lane ..dude..
Click to expand...
Al, really??? You’re the one callin’ names. I wouldn’t have posted on this thead, probably wouldn’t have even opened it, had you not mentioned me by name.
 
I've done a similar thing with some horse chestnuts. My thinking is that the roots below the tile ought to have withered away when the fusion and ground layering is complete. So, I just severely pruned the roots below and replanted with the tile (actually the bottom of a broken pot in my case) still in place. I wonder if this sets up the clump for making a pancake nebari or at least a nicely flared nebari.

It will be interesting to see how this (your clump) develops. 👍
 
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