How much trunk chop is too much? (Ulmus americana)

[ETN_bonsai]

This tree is growing in the materials yard at our shop. In total height, it’s right at 11 feet. At the nebari, it’s 3.5-4.5”. I’m considering collecting it in a couple months. My initial thought was to chop it as marked, then cut it lower in a year or two depending on how new branching comes. My concern is that would be too much of a cut. I’d save that branch below the chop and there are some smaller branches that are hard to see in the photo.



Thanks for any advice or input!

 

[BrianBay9]

I'd chop it just above that little curve in the trunk - looks like 8 to 10 inches above the soil line? First you might want to clear the soil from around the trunk, find the roots and see if that changes your mind about the chop height. There might be some more trunk under the current soil line.

 

[ETN_bonsai]

I'd chop it just above that little curve in the trunk - looks like 8 to 10 inches above the soil line? First you might want to clear the soil from around the trunk, find the roots and see if that changes your mind about the chop height. There might be some more trunk under the current soil line.

That much?! I figured that would net me a little bit of firewood and no tree haha. That’s where I wanted to get eventually.
I’m pretty sure that the current soil line is about as far as I can go. There are two or three meaty roots running out right at soil level as it stands.

 

[BrianBay9]

That much?! I figured that would net me a little bit of firewood and no tree haha. That’s where I wanted to get eventually.
I’m pretty sure that the current soil line is about as far as I can go. There are two or three meaty roots running out right at soil level as it stands.

An American elm should readily bud out from the trunk after a hard chop. It's your tree, so do what you're comfortable with. But that little wiggle in the bottom of the trunk is the only part that would make me interested in collecting this tree. I'd build everything else from what sprouts off that.

 

[ETN_bonsai]

An American elm should readily bud out from the trunk after a hard chop. It's your tree, so do what you're comfortable with. But that little wiggle in the bottom of the trunk is the only part that would make me interested in collecting this tree. I'd build everything else from what sprouts off that.

I don’t doubt your advice, it just surprises me that it would recover from that. I agree that’s the only interesting part of the tree. My main interest in collecting it was the experience. Tree will be cut to the ground eventually. We would have killed it this summer if I hadn’t said I wanted it. Our shop monkey has been making half hearted attempts at killing it for two years at this point.

 

[Michael P]

It's an elm, chop it low and save yourself years of development.

 

[misfit11]

What Brian said. Cut low. There isn't anything above this that is worth keeping. It is a taperless telephone pole. You'll be happier in the long run if you chop down around where Ive indicated. Should bud back no problem.

If you really wanted to salvage more material, you could air layer at the line to get two trees... but why? That option would cost you another year and the material isn't that great.

 

[ETN_bonsai]

Well fellas I’ll take a hack at it this spring. When it’s done, there shall be photos.
Thanks for the advice!

 

[Shibui]

Definitely cut low right from the start. Elms can survive if cut down to the ground so a low cut is no problem.
The problem with an initial higher chop is that it will only bud out around the cut so you'll have to go back and cut again at some stage. Just as well go low from the start and save a few years.
Elms also have no problem with root reduction so you can chop big roots back as far as required and the tree will still grow. Definitely no need to 'take as many roots as possible' with elms. Bare root is no problem either.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

What Brian said. Cut low. There isn't anything above this that is worth keeping. It is a taperless telephone pole. You'll be happier in the long run if you chop down around where Ive indicated. Should bud back no problem.

I created this image before I scrolled down to read your post. Our two images are almost identical.

 

[ETN_bonsai]

Just for my own curiosity, how large could I let this tree grow before it would be too much to cut? In theory, if I topped it every year or two to keep the height manageable but let the trunk thicken, how thick could it become before chopping it down to the indicated level and collecting it before the cut would kill it?
I ask because I have a couple of American and winged elm on my property I could treat in this fashion. The tree in the photo is on a commercial property that may or may not be sold in the next year or two, so I figured I’d collect it now.

 

[rockm]

Cut It low. Also when you dig it out it’s not necessary to get a huge root mass. Or even a root mass at at. Elms are extremely resilient and vigorous. They can recover quickly from up to 99 percent root loss. I’d try to get a few feeder roots closest to the trunk but not much more. Plant the stump in regular free draining bonsai soil. Don’t use organic soil or keep it below 30 percent of the mix

I would use a saw to get the tree out not a shovel. The process is clearing the soil away six inches or so out from the trunk all the way around then saw roots in that area until the tree comes free. Hardest part is getting at the tap root underneath the trunk. Don’t chop the tree until you work the roots. The tall trunk is a lever to tilt the tree to get underneath at the roots

Once the roots underneath are cut you can top it. Don’t cut the trunk to the “final height”. Leave six inches or so to allow the new buds to grow. Those buds will provide more choices for the new apex extension on the trunk. Hopping too low at first eliminates options.

I’ve collected many cedar elms with this technique and some of my bonsai friends in the area have done it on American elm. Works great

 

[leatherback]

you have your answer. Just as an example, last week I did a growbed cleanup..:

 

[BrianBay9]

Just for my own curiosity, how large could I let this tree grow before it would be too much to cut? In theory, if I topped it every year or two to keep the height manageable but let the trunk thicken, how thick could it become before chopping it down to the indicated level and collecting it before the cut would kill it?
I ask because I have a couple of American and winged elm on my property I could treat in this fashion. The tree in the photo is on a commercial property that may or may not be sold in the next year or two, so I figured I’d collect it now.

You can let it get as large as you feel you can reasonably manage. No need to keep it topped. It will get to the trunk girth you want faster if you just let it grow.

 

[SeanS]

The only factor that would limit how large of a chop (diameter of the trunk) you can perform on an elm is how long you want to be healing the subsequent wound for.

 

[Shibui]

Even elms that are a couple of feet in diameter will sprout new shoots and grow so there's no upper limit to how big a trunk you can chop and have it survive.
However, it is not just survival we are interested in. See above.

 

[Joe Dupre']

A chop at 8 to 10 inches would be my preference. I collected an American Elm about 4 years ago with a 4" trunk and it got chopped at about 12". Sitting in a mortar tub on the ground, the roots found their way into the ground. That tree sent up a shoot 14 FEET tall and as big as a broom stick in one growing season. You shouldn't have any trouble with getting sprouting just about anywhere on that trunk.

 

[Gabler]

A chop at 8 to 10 inches would be my preference. I collected an American Elm about 4 years ago with a 4" trunk and it got chopped at about 12". Sitting in a mortar tub on the ground, the roots found their way into the ground. That tree sent up a shoot 14 FEET tall and as big as a broom stick in one growing season. You shouldn't have any trouble with getting sprouting just about anywhere on that trunk.

Sounds about right. I planted seeds in 2023, and they grew about four feet in their first year. I chopped them back to about six to eight inches last spring, removed almost all of the roots, and repotted them into separate containers. The tallest was almost ten feet (three meters) at the end of the summer. Like you said, the roots escaped into the ground. It's no wonder American elm was once the most popular tree in parks and other public green spaces. The only thing that can stop it is Dutch elm disease.

 

[shohin_branches]

It's an elm, you will not be able to cut it so low you kill it. There is one against my back retaining wall that I dug down 8 inches below the soil line and sawed out. It came back last year. I'm fairly close to painting it with gasoline.

 

[Shibui]

Elm roots even have the capacity to grow new buds and shoots. We often propagate elms from root cuttings. As @shohin_branches says, even cutting below ground level it will probably still grow back and, again, size is not a factor.