How big is too big for Broom Zelkova

[Toraidento]

So I seen this Zelkova Serrata at the local nursery today. Pretty sure it's a Zelkova. Seeds look exactly like the seeds I planted last year. I've seen @markyscott Chunhin broom post. I think this is that big maybe a touch bigger. I'm just curious if do this one like ha did that one or is it just too big. If I was too use it what is a good height to start at? Any thoughts?

 

[parhamr]

That’s not too big

Convincing brooms seem to have a trunk height of 1.5 to 4 times the trunk diameter

 

[sorce]

Where are the Roots at?

I don't know that I'd buy it without knowing.

Wouldn't chop it without knowing what the roots look like.

The time to fix a poor nebari is before you chop it.

Sorce

 

[Toraidento]

Where are the Roots at?

I don't know that I'd buy it without knowing.

Wouldn't chop it without knowing what the roots look like.

The time to fix a poor nebari is before you chop it.

Sorce

I really didn't look because, I wasn't sure if it would make a good project. Wasn't sure if a Zelkova could withstand the chop and root work @markyscott did to that Chinese Elm. I'll take a look at the Nebari next time I go by there. I haven't bought it. I'll get more pics.

 

[Anthony]

When it is 2 or 3 feet tall and you take 2 or 3
weeks to clean etc. you will kmow if it is too
big.

Watched a guy at Innocenti's Bonsai nursery in
Tarvanuzze [ spelling ? ] defoliate and clean
a 2/ 3 foot Elm, took two weeks.
Good Luck.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Anthony]

And here is the inspiration.
Ah, if only the fustic would reach this.
Good Day
Anthony

From a Japanese nursery.
We call it - Amazing

 

[markyscott]

I really didn't look because, I wasn't sure if it would make a good project. Wasn't sure if a Zelkova could withstand the chop and root work @markyscott did to that Chinese Elm. I'll take a look at the Nebari next time I go by there. I haven't bought it. I'll get more pics.

That tree is substantially larger than the one I’m building - mine is a small tree. I believe this is more like the size of Ebihara’s zelcova that I posted about in that thread. He has some photos about where he chopped that tree. Study those to get an idea of where to chop yours. Just remember that about ~2/3 of the tree will be above the chop to get the proportions right. So if you chop a foot and a half above the ground, you’re building a 4-5’ tree. So don’t be shy when you chop and keep your final vision in mind.

Couple of other things. As Sorce said, find the nebari first. You might change your mind about where to chop if it ends up being 6” below the soil surface. Second, look for the straightest trunk you can find with no bends or curves. A tree this size will be a substantial commitment of time, so make sure you start with perfect material so your not disappointed a few years down the line.

Looks like a fun project - get at it!

S

 

[Djtommy]

That tree is substantially larger than the one I’m building - mine is a small tree. I believe this is more like the size of Ebihara’s zelcova that I posted about in that thread. He has some photos about where he chopped that tree. Study those to get an idea of where to chop yours. Just remember that about ~2/3 of the tree will be above the chop to get the proportions right. So if you chop a foot and a half above the ground, you’re building a 4-5’ tree. So don’t be shy when you chop and keep your final vision in mind.

Couple of other things. As Sorce said, find the nebari first. You might change your mind about where to chop if it ends up being 6” below the soil surface. Second, look for the straightest trunk you can find with no bends or curves. A tree this size will be a substantial commitment of time, so make sure you start with perfect material so your not disappointed a few years down the line.

Looks like a fun project - get at it!

S

As for the nebari, since it’s likely long time in this pot, it probably isn’t something you want to be using considering as you say the amount of time it will take to make a crown for this size tree. Wouldn’t it be better to airlayer it? I’ve never done one this big myself, not sure if it’s a good idea but might best for the future. but Which to do first then? A chop would require a decent amount of stored energy and an airlayer a decent crown to build roots

 

[Toraidento]

It was just a thought I never even ask about a price. I had remembered seeing markyscotts post and thought that was a cool project. When I seen this tree it reminded me of his. I'll look at it further next time I go. But it does have some movement in the trunk. A slight curve. So if it's not straight below that after Marky mentioning quality. I may not mess with it. But a Big broom Like the Elbihara Zelkova would be cool

 

[cbroad]

Where are the Roots at?

Exactly

In @Bonsaieejit's second pic, you can see burlap and some of the metal cage, this is called a B&C (balled and contained). Field grown trees are notorious for having too much soil put on the root crown when dug, sometimes as much as several inches. There's a really good chance the nebari is buried pretty deep, which will have to be factored in when planning the first chop. Air layering maybe a better choice to get a cleaner nebari.

 

[MrWunderful]

Most of the zelkova Ive grown from seed, Or purchased as nursery stock has had to have the original roots abandoned for an airlayer or tourniquet. Even when worked from first year seedlings they end up with a bad spread. So i think either way you will need to abandon the roots. But if it’s the right price it might be a fun long-term project.

keep in mind a huge broom like that will probably take 20-30 years before its even to refinement.