Hoping for advice on whether I should make this new Bougainvillea into Raft or Wind-Swept style?

[SU2]

I collected this last night thinking it'd be Raft style but, having it home and cut, am now starting to think that I should chop the entire right-most section off (the only section that isn't slanting hard to the left) and go wind-swept - any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated!!

I had to chuck it in that tiny box due to time constraints but will be re-boxing this afternoon and plan to do any additional cutting then (have a sawzall, angle-grinder and die-grinder so can cut whatever's necessary!), would love to hear opinions on what styles/directions this material is best suited for!

Thanks for reading/looking, and for any opinions/thoughts on this guy




[edit- as far as those really old trunk-chops on this thing, I'm not planning to grind them smooth or do any work like that yet I don't think, I don't want to expose more cambium now than is necessary....part of me thinks it'd be just fine, if any bougie-expert is reading this I'd love your opinion! FWIW I timed this based on a 3-day rainy period around the collection and pre-fed the plant 24 and 48hr before collection with a ~4-4-4 fertilizer+minerals fluid, and it was raining during collection, so this should pretty 'primed' right now!]

 

[M. Frary]

I'd wait to see if it's going to grow first.
Then let it get good and strong.
That stump can be molded into something besides windswept or slant.
I'm guessing clump style.

 

[GrimLore]

thoughts on this guy

It most likely does not need a larger box, they prefer root bound. If it were mine I would flat top it at the black line, and I would get rid of the small stuff I quick marked in red. If it takes and grows a year you can play with design(s) then. No telling what portions will or won't throw branch so it is a wait and see...



Grimmy

 

[SU2]

I'd wait to see if it's going to grow first.
Then let it get good and strong.
That stump can be molded into something besides windswept or slant.
I'm guessing clump style.

I really don't need to wait there's almost zero% chance this isn't going to be successful (bougies are basically all I do and I've had a high success% from the get-go but have gotten better over time and honestly don't think I've ever lost a bougie with roots only a smallish % of hardwood cuttings) So really this is ready to be put in the way it's going to be trained, like if that right-side clump isn't good in the final design I'd rather remove it now before letting it develop! What styles do you see as ideal for this type of stock? Raft was what I thought I'd do when it was in-ground (I've been watching this one for a while, only got permission last week and timed the collection for yesterday), now that it's out it just looks like it'd lend itself to Wind-Swept better, but would love other ideas if you think something's more suitable!

 

[SU2]

It most likely does not need a larger box, they prefer root bound. If it were mine I would flat top it at the black line, and I would get rid of the small stuff I quick marked in red. If it takes and grows a year you can play with design(s) then. No telling what portions will or won't throw branch so it is a wait and see...

View attachment 161639

Grimmy

Do you think it just looks bad in such a tiny box? I'm within 24hrs collection so not worried at all about 'disturbing' it (a transplant right now won't hurt it I just 'know' this or would bet dollars-to-donuts on it), and can say with same confidence it'll take (even w/o roots it'd almost certainly take - I've had few bougie transplant failures but they've all been hardwood cuttings, never something with roots)

I like the lower line you draw but am afraid of taking it back too-much right now, I have a couple other (larger) bougies that I took real low and now there's no character, plus bougies often don't put out new growth right at the top of a cut (like, the cambium kind of falls-back at the cut) so I figure leaving things a little taller now is better...but your line is much lower than I'd think, perhaps my 'little taller' was bigger than I'd thought am going to have to go stare some more!

Re the two in red, I figured I'd leave them as sacrifice material, as they'll bud first & quickest - I had an issue though that I'd love your opinion on...when cutting-back a specimen like this that has a bunch of branches, is there any good reason to leave the thicker stumps longer, and the thinner ones shorter? Or vice-versa? It just seems there's some staggering that may be useful (like "leave the thinner ones longer/shorter") but can't figure it out..

Let's just presume *all* spots throw buds - if you got buds everywhere you wanted - what style(s) do you think this is best suited to?

 

[M. Frary]

Well I got this thing. It's an elm but a lot like what you have.
To tell you the truth I'm thinking of planting it back in the ground to layer trees off of in the future.
It's a mess. What kind of tree or style do you see?

 

[Cadillactaste]

Let it recover...and get strong. In the meantime...just chew over a direction. Let the stump tell you what it wants to be...than force it. Bonsai = Patience

 

[M. Frary]

Let it recover...and get strong. In the meantime...just chew over a direction. Let the stump tell you what it wants to be...than force it. Bonsai = Patience

If you want you can have mine Darlene.
If you don't know what patience really is have this monstrosity sitting around while you decide how to proceed.
I just cut things off Willy nilly anymore. No direction. Just testing the sharpness of my cutters.
I'll take a picture of it at the present. It's been in that colander for three years now. The leaves are getting tiny from it being so restricted and my taking chunks off but it's still a mess.
Just send the money for a bus ticket and it can go to Ohio on Greyhound. It will be fine just sitting there. It's angry looking and no one will mess with it.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Your forgetting I had that Ugly Frankenstein Tamarix that I kept hidden a number of years to get strong and healthy...until it went into a training pot this past year. It's style trained into weeping for the most part. Made my direction much easier. I am really shocked it gets a lot of attention by visitors. I still see it as a Frankenstein tree/Ugly duckling...maybe one day...through squinted eyes it will be a swan. Lol

@M. Frary When you collected it...were you originally thinking clump? Or carving project? Would love to see the direction or at least where you have taken it to so far. Great it's leaves are reducing!

 

[M. Frary]

Your forgetting I had that Ugly Frankenstein Tamarix that I kept hidden a number of years to get strong and healthy...until it went into a training pot this past year. It's style trained into weeping for the most part. Made my direction much easier. I am really shocked it gets a lot of attention by visitors. I still see it as a Frankenstein tree/Ugly duckling...maybe one day...through squinted eyes it will be a swan. Lol

@M. Frary When you collected it...were you originally thinking clump? Or carving project? Would love to see the direction or at least where you have taken it to so far. Great it's leaves are reducing!

I was thinking clump style. But the thing is basically a block of wood with trunks out of it. And mushrooms. It's nice and moist down in the valleys and crannies. It's shady in there.
I'll get some pictures.
The reason I collected it was to get it out from under the foundation of my sister's house. I was going to hit it with garlon and be be done with it but it being an elm and my desire to have too many elms won out.
I've been thinking of letting it grow out a whole year or two then take a hedge cutter to it. Literally a power hedge trimmer. Pictures and all for on here.
That sounds fun doesn't it. Walter Pall talks about hedge trimming his trees but does he use Black&Decker?

 

[SU2]

Well I got this thing. It's an elm but a lot like what you have.
To tell you the truth I'm thinking of planting it back in the ground to layer trees off of in the future.
It's a mess.View attachment 161708 View attachment 161709 What kind of tree or style do you see?

I love colanders, have been using them myself, such a good idea!

Yeah that elm's style is very similar (am envious, I don't have any elms!), and I see a 'clump'/raft style (I'm having trouble seeing the difference between clump/raft, raft just seems to be more 'in a straight line' whereas clump is clumpy, is that the full difference?)

And re putting it back in the ground (!).....why? I like that guy I couldn't imagine cutting it down (or planting&layering) for smaller pieces although I'm biased towards larger bonsai!!

/couldn't help but notice the blue kool-aid box in the 2nd pic's background, that's not balanced!! ;D

 

[SU2]

Let it recover...and get strong. In the meantime...just chew over a direction. Let the stump tell you what it wants to be...than force it. Bonsai = Patience

Well I'm certainly going to let it recover and get strong, was just unsure if I should go wind-swept (as doing so would've made it smarter to remove that right-most section), am pretty sold on clump/raft now so left it there (although it's been reboxed to a more appropriately-sized container!) I've chewed over this for a while and had been thinking raft/clump the whole time, it was just getting it in-hand and seeing that it kind of had that tilt that'd lend itself to wind-swept, but after consideration I'm leaving it to grow clump style!

 

[SU2]

It's been in that colander for three years now.

Whaaa? How on earth has it not outgrown that? I'm imagining you mean just sitting in it, not that you've been taking it out and root-pruning!

It's angry looking and no one will mess with it.

ROFL!!

 

[M. Frary]

Whaaa? How on earth has it not outgrown that? I'm imagining you mean just sitting in it, not that you've been taking it out and root-pruning!
I've only taken it out once. Last year,just to see. It's nothing but an almost solid mass. It's crazy that it even lives.


ROFL!!

 

[SU2]

Yeah I'm surprised, I guess so long as the moisture level's good and you feed it, and the substrate can't break-down, then the colander's air-pruning probably lets it get to the point of a solid mass of roots that just stays moist (like vapor-ponics or whatever where the roots are in the air inside tubes that have max humidity/misting) Surprising still though, says a lot about an elm's hardiness (I didn't know they could be hacked up like that, that's got me very excited to find one for myself!!)