Help! New to willows

[PlantsAndPaws]

Hello everyone! My name is Laura, and I’m happy I found this site, for I am a beginner and have some questions. Sometimes YouTube videos and google can be very overwhelming and not really addressing my specific questions. So my question to you is, what do I do with this willow??!! Although I have a few baby plants that I’ve grown from seed, I’m new to willows. I acquired a willow trimming that has grown quick in the past 6 months and I just don’t know what to do with it. Any and all suggestions and guidance is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!

 

[Zach Smith]

Best to choose different species. Willows are challenging bonsai subjects, as they tend to lose branches randomly and are not amenable to training. If you want to work on that willow, by all means, but don't consider it the centerpiece of your collection. You're almost certain to be disappointed, and we don't want beginners to get discouraged due to a poor selection of subject material.

Among deciduous species there are many elms that do extremely well, plus oaks, get yourself a bald cypress, American hornbeam, etc. Get as many trees as you can comfortably care for, so you don't love any of them to death.

Good luck!

 

[Eckhoffw]

I have a bit of willows going. I’ve enjoyed their progression.
I like to place them on/in a shallow tray of water. They like wet with free draining soil.

Don’t be afraid to prune back hard, and take cuttings.
They do drop branches from time to time, but usually on the newer growth.

 

[HorseloverFat]

While not detracting from what was stated above (which is indeed sound advice)... I’ll address the “if you are going to care for this willow” part.

If you could provide a closer picture of the leaves (maybe bark) it will be a lot easier to help you with this identification.

And a closer shot of the base of the trunk and branches will allow a clearer idea of “where you could go” with it.



Also what @Eckhoffw said about their ability to handle hard pruning.. very sound advice.

 

[Mikecheck123]

Willows are challenging bonsai subjects, as they tend to lose branches randomly and are not amenable to training.

Depends on what kind, as there is a lot of variability among "willow" species. Weeping willows (s. babylonica) are god awful and do do that random dieback stuff.

But curly willows are very well behaved for all bonsai training techniques. You can hard chop them recklessly and get zero dieback. You can defoliate. They ramify and the leaves reduce. And I don't know of another species that you can develop faster.

I posted a recent progression of a curly willow that is in fact a centerpiece of my collection. To be clear, I'm not claiming this is going to win any awards, but as a noob, the end result is far beyond my wildest dreams. Plus, I really didn't know what I was doing for half the time, so I think it's a great species for beginners. Other willow varieties are not.



Laura, here's the entire progression.

Curly Willow 2.5 year progression from hard chop to detail wiring

This tree is special to me because it's one that I have been working the longest and have spent the most hours on. I pulled it off a trash heap in Nov. 2016. It was an unremarkable patio tree with about a 1 inch trunk. Unfortunately, I have no pictures of it then because I didn't yet...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Zach Smith]

Yeah, just talking about plain old willow. Frustrating and a waste of time for me, and I hate to see a beginner get frustrated with a poor species and conclude they can't do bonsai. For what it's worth.

 

[Eckhoffw]

I would suggest identifying your plant and then find some examples of that tree in nature.
I believe then you can work towards replicating that If desired.

 

[PlantsAndPaws]

While not detracting from what was stated above (which is indeed sound advice)... I’ll address the “if you are going to care for this willow” part.

If you could provide a closer picture of the leaves (maybe bark) it will be a lot easier to help you with this identification.

And a closer shot of the base of the trunk and branches will allow a clearer idea of “where you could go” with it.



Also what @Eckhoffw said about their ability to handle hard pruning.. very sound advice.

 

[PlantsAndPaws]

Best to choose different species. Willows are challenging bonsai subjects, as they tend to lose branches randomly and are not amenable to training. If you want to work on that willow, by all means, but don't consider it the centerpiece of your collection. You're almost certain to be disappointed, and we don't want beginners to get discouraged due to a poor selection of subject material.

Among deciduous species there are many elms that do extremely well, plus oaks, get yourself a bald cypress, American hornbeam, etc. Get as many trees as you can comfortably care for, so you don't love any of them to death.

Good luck!

Thank you so much

 

[PlantsAndPaws]

I would suggest identifying your plant and then find some examples of that tree in nature.
I believe then you can work towards replicating that If desired.

I believe it is a weeping willow

 

[PlantsAndPaws]

While not detracting from what was stated above (which is indeed sound advice)... I’ll address the “if you are going to care for this willow” part.

If you could provide a closer picture of the leaves (maybe bark) it will be a lot easier to help you with this identification.

And a closer shot of the base of the trunk and branches will allow a clearer idea of “where you could go” with it.



Also what @Eckhoffw said about their ability to handle hard pruning.. very sound advice.

 

[PlantsAndPaws]

Depends on what kind, as there is a lot of variability among "willow" species. Weeping willows (s. babylonica) are god awful and do do that random dieback stuff.

But curly willows are very well behaved for all bonsai training techniques. You can hard chop them recklessly and get zero dieback. You can defoliate. They ramify and the leaves reduce. And I don't know of another species that you can develop faster.

I posted a recent progression of a curly willow that is in fact a centerpiece of my collection. To be clear, I'm not claiming this is going to win any awards, but as a noob, the end result is far beyond my wildest dreams. Plus, I really didn't know what I was doing for half the time, so I think it's a great species for beginners. Other willow varieties are not.

View attachment 319458

Laura, here's the entire progression.

Curly Willow 2.5 year progression from hard chop to detail wiring

This tree is special to me because it's one that I have been working the longest and have spent the most hours on. I pulled it off a trash heap in Nov. 2016. It was an unremarkable patio tree with about a 1 inch trunk. Unfortunately, I have no pictures of it then because I didn't yet...

www.bonsainut.com

Thanks for sharing! In my head, I imagined a getting it to weep, but I, like you then, am definitely a noob

 

[Mikecheck123]

I believe it is a weeping willow

Here's my weeping willow anecdote from this month. Because I'm a glutton for punishment, I do have a few weeping willows. One of them is a raft created from a big branch downed in a storm. It has five trunks that are each about 5-7 feet tall.

It's in a huge plastic bin with ZERO drainage because it's so thirsty. To water it I fill the bin up to the top with water. Every day.

Well earlier this month I had to go out of town for 2 days. I pulled the bin into the yard so that the yard's irrigation system would water it while I was away.

It wasn't enough. And when I got back, all five trunks died back 50%. After just TWO measly days!!!
It's truly a wicked species for bonsai. Wickedly bad that is.

In contrast, my curly willow also didn't get enough water. But all it did was drop some leaves that grew right back. No dieback to speak of.

 

[PlantsAndPaws]

Here's my weeping willow anecdote from this month. Because I'm a glutton for punishment, I do have a few weeping willows. One of them is a raft created from a big branch downed in a storm. It has five trunks that are each about 5-7 feet tall.

It's in a huge plastic bin with ZERO drainage because it's so thirsty. To water it I fill the bin up to the top with water. Every day.

Well earlier this month I had to go out of town for 2 days. I pulled the bin into the yard so that the yard's irrigation system would water it while I was away.

It wasn't enough. And when I got back, all five trunks died back 50%. After just TWO measly days!!!
It's truly a wicked species for bonsai. Wickedly bad that is.

In contrast, my curly willow also didn't get enough water. But all it did was drop some leaves that grew right back. No dieback to speak of.

Great thanks for the info! Should I just let it grow then? Ideally I’d love for it to weep, any suggestions there? I’m still learning all the lingo

 

[Mikecheck123]

Ideally I’d love for it to weep, any suggestions there?

A weeping willow will weep without much effort. But I'm not convinced that this is actually a weeping willow, though. Where did you get it?

Yours has a very upright growth habit. Which makes me think it might be some other kind of willow. There's a hybrid called the "Austree willow" that is becoming popular (not to be confused with the "Australian willow," which is an entirely different genus).

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[PlantsAndPaws]

A weeping willow will weep without much effort. But I'm not convinced that this is actually a weeping willow, though. Where did you get it?

Yours has a very upright growth habit. Which makes me think it might be some other kind of willow. There's a hybrid called the "Austree willow" that is becoming popular (not to be confused with the "Australian willow," which is an entirely different genus).

 

[Forsoothe!]

I've never seen a "weeping" willow in bonsai. The thinnest branches are those which seem to winter-kill the most regularly. Outside of that, the branches only "weep" as the result of getting long enough for the weight of the ends to droop because of the length. That length is never obtained in a bonsai-sized tree. Someone, a better man than me, may show an example of a "weeping" willow in a bonsai-sized tree.

To manage what the OP has, trim to some kind of dome that pleases the eye, then defoliate by cutting all the leaves off at the petiole. Then, as continuing care trim any twig back to a bud below the canopy any twig that threatens to grow beyond the imaginary dome of the canopy. Defoliate whenever the tree grows too dense. Be prepared to defoliate every 6 weeks.

 

[Mikecheck123]

I've never seen a "weeping" willow in bonsai.

They are rare by serious artists but not unheard of. I saw one years ago by an artist named Marcus Watts in the UK. I can't find a good or recent picture of his tree, but here's what I could find (on the left). This picture being from 2014. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2qrAlujTntI/U0pkfcrB3BI/AAAAAAAABno/KTjsuZZ1yR0/s1600/002.JPG

In doing this search, I did stumble upon another one that won best of show.

Our Winter Show 2013

This year in pictures at our Winter Image Show

swindon-bonsai.co.uk

 

[Mikecheck123]

Laura, I spent far too much time researching what the heck that tree is. What's funny is that "CZ Grain" has a YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG3AaIeGUKTA24XHnmYkBMg), where it's very, very clear that they have no idea what they're doing. It's just like a guy and his wife on a farm in Iowa selling willow cuttings online.

Their operation is a bit scammy, to be honest. It seems like he's just getting into the game of online bonsai scams, but expanding. Must be a good business to get into! Other scammy things are the logos and pictures he uses. Some of them aren't even willows at all, and I'm pretty sure that the picture you posted is not even the same species as the one he sold you.

In any case, every single Google search for anything about a "dwarf willow" goes to some variation of his site. From just watching him speak about plants, he seems very, very unlikely to have created his own dwarf cultivar on his farm in Iowa. So I really do think he's just repackaging the Austree Hybrid Willows in (very) "creative" ways. Those are really popular wind breaks in Iowa, Wisconsin, and Illinois.

In that case, your tree is a hybrid between salix alba (white willow) and salix matsudana (curly willow).

It therefore will always have an upright growth habit and will NOT weep on its own. Instead, you have to wire it that way, hang weights (clothes pins work for that), or choose a different style.

If you looked at my progression, I tried to make my tree weep for the longest time. And it does work! But there are two problems. Number 1: you have to make sure that when it weeps it doesn't obscure the trunk. Number 2: the maintenance to fight the upright growth habit becomes a never-ending chore very quickly. Every new shoot that emerges wants to grow STRAIGHT UP. And on a tree of any size with any decent number of branches, this quickly becomes a full-time job (that doesn't pay very well.

Best of luck!