Help me brainstorm how to collect this

[mattspinniken]

This is a White Cedar I found last summer. The owner of the property is on board and a nice guy. This is not a normal collection because it is growing out of a stump in the water and I need to come in by row boat.

My current plan is to cut the whole stump off around water level, excavate the stump a bit and then plant the whole thing with good media. It is pretty adhered to the stump. Tree is about 2.5 ft tall. Thoughts?

 

[Hartinez]

Do you have a wider angle photo of the location? are The roots and stump completely submerged? Or completely surrounded like an island? Sawzall??

Just checked and followed your insta page also. Great photos and collections. I’ve got some questions for you about foliage on Thuja that I’ll ask on another page i started so I don’t hijack this one!

 

[Hartinez]

Is the stump rotting? Can you chip away some of the stump along with the roots and allow the stump to break down after collection? Almost like keeping some of the original field soil in other collections.

 

[mattspinniken]

Hi @Hartinez feel free to ask away about Thuja and thanks for your ideas on this one. I have attached one additional picture that kind of shows the stump more. The stump is rotting it must be a really really old stump because that tree is certainly not young. I have been thinking of chipping away carefully what I can once I get it back to my house and then planting. Its just to bulky otherwise.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Is the tree a living part of the rotting stump where the vital roots still part of the original stump? It looks like the tree has feeder roots growing into the rotting stump. Maybe you can just try breaking the stump down from below and lifting the tree, as if the rotting wood were soil.

 

[Hartinez]

Hi @Hartinez feel free to ask away about Thuja and thanks for your ideas on this oneView attachment 255477. I have attached one additional picture that kind of shows the stump more. The stump is rotting it must be a really really old stump because that tree is certainly not young. I have been thinking of chipping away carefully what I can once I get it back to my house and then planting. Its just to bulky otherwise.

That’s nuts!! What a cool find. I imagine the rotting wood from the stump is partly what has that foliage looking so good. Couldn’t you just take a battery powered sawzall and cut along the green line. Or like one deep wedge cut into the stump and take part of it with you? Then start chipping away at the stump where roots aren’t growing? Or does weight become an issue at that point? Either way, looks challenging but fun!

 

[River's Edge]

This is a White Cedar I found last summer. The owner of the property is on board and a nice guy. This is not a normal collection because it is growing out of a stump in the water and I need to come in by row boat.

My current plan is to cut the whole stump off around water level, excavate the stump a bit and then plant the whole thing with good media. It is pretty adhered to the stump. Tree is about 2.5 ft tall. View attachment 255464View attachment 255463Thoughts?

We have similar situations occurring in the surrounding forests and our land. What i have noticed is that frequently several main roots have extended beyond the stump and are receiving moisture and nourishment from media below or outside of the stump. These actually appear to be the main supply based on their size!
With this in mind i would check the periphery carefully before just sawing off the stump. As well as any major cracks or crevices in the stump. You may need to go lower than you think. Good luck with this one.

 

[mattspinniken]

That’s nuts!! What a cool find. I imagine the rotting wood from the stump is partly what has that foliage looking so good. Couldn’t you just take a battery powered sawzall and cut along the green line. Or like one deep wedge cut into the stump and take part of it with you? Then start chipping away at the stump where roots aren’t growing? Or does weight become an issue at that point? Either way, looks challenging but fun!

Initially I would have done this but I have lost a tree trying this method. I think @River's Edge is on the right track with supplying roots often being further away than they seem, maybe not but I don't think I want to take the risk. Taking the whole stump should allow me to really study it too before I start cutting. @Orion_metalhead this is a new tree that grew in an old stump if that answers your question.

 

[River's Edge]

Initially I would have done this but I have lost a tree trying this method. I think @River's Edge is on the right track with supplying roots often being further away than they seem, maybe not but I don't think I want to take the risk. Taking the whole stump should allow me to really study it too before I start cutting. @Orion_metalhead this is a new tree that grew in an old stump if that answers your question.

I have successfully taken deeper roots and coiled them in the grow box around the main mass. So in some cases it is possible to excavate the extended portions individually rather than take the whole mass surrounding them. That was the point i was trying to make. I typically collect at high elevations and the weight is an issue climbing down.

 

[PiñonJ]

I would think you should plant it as you’ve described and hopefully the increased oxygenation in a well-draining medium will promote surface root growth. Then maybe you can cut it off of the stump in a year, or two. I think I would include an organic component in the mix to compete with the moisture in the stump.

 

[River's Edge]

I have successfully taken deeper roots and coiled them in the grow box around the main mass. So in some cases it is possible to excavate the extended portions individually rather than take the whole mass surrounding them. That was the point i was trying to make. I typically collect at high elevations and the weight is an issue climbing down.

After a closer look at the picture it appears that competing species are growing out of the stump nearby! If they were

This is a White Cedar I found last summer. The owner of the property is on board and a nice guy. This is not a normal collection because it is growing out of a stump in the water and I need to come in by row boat.

My current plan is to cut the whole stump off around water level, excavate the stump a bit and then plant the whole thing with good media. It is pretty adhered to the stump. Tree is about 2.5 ft tall. View attachment 255464View attachment 255463Thoughts?

If water level changes throughout the season, pick a low level period as much as possible. It stands to reason that the primary roots may reach that level. The retention of the rotting stump material is key to allow for gradual PH adjustment when switching soil mixes and during recovery from collection. Due to the disturbance of the decomposing media the securing of the base in the grow box will be important as well. For this type of situation i use wood cross braces screwed into the trunk across the ledge of the grow box. This ensures no movement of the recovering feeder roots and also allows picking a suitable planting angle for the formation of new root ball.

 

[sorce]

I've seen some of the stuff you collect.

Way better than this by far.

I can see why this is calling, but....

Looks like a waste of your time.

Sorce

 

[mattspinniken]

good point @PiñonJ especially about adding some moisture holding component to the soil. @River's Edge its nice to have someone with experience with something like this.

@sorce you are the man, I appreciate the straight up comment. Pictures of trees in the "wild" never look right, saying that this is smaller than I usually go for. It has a much bigger partner that I will try and collect next year. I will be really interested if you change your mind once I get a picture of it back home. It is by far one of the oldest looking Cedars I have ever seen in the wild.

 

[sorce]

good point @PiñonJ especially about adding some moisture holding component to the soil. @River's Edge its nice to have someone with experience with something like this.

@sorce you are the man, I appreciate the straight up comment. Pictures of trees in the "wild" never look right, saying that this is smaller than I usually go for. It has a much bigger partner that I will try and collect next year. I will be really interested if you change your mind once I get a picture of it back home. It is by far one of the oldest looking Cedars I have ever seen in the wild.

I knew you'd know better so I look forward to seeing it!

That said....

I don't think there is any way large portions are lower than water line....unless it grew mostly during a severe drought.

I guess you can saw it off at current water line....and keep it soaked AF until the wood around it crumbles away.

This is by far the most different, mom-standard "collection" there can be.
Continue to treat it as such and I believe you will be successful.

There must be enough root in that stump to keep it alive. Even if large parts are below waterline.

Row row row your cedar, home across the lake, merrily merrily merrily merrily bonsai fucking dreams!

Sorce

 

[mattspinniken]

we are having a colder spell and I gave this a go. I’m going to give it a 90% or more chance of survival. The stump was rock hard petrified on the outside and rotting on the inside. I think it’s safe to say I got almost every good feeder root and there were plenty.

It was much harder to saw through then I expected. I used a combination of a chainsaw, axe, hatchet, root saw, and a wood saw and it took me honestly about 2 hrs to saw through. This tree was a good experience because I now know how much work it will be to get his bigger brother out.

I planted the entire root mass / rotting wood in an anderson flat. Potted with a mix of akadama, pumice, turface, and orchid bark. I made holes through the rotted wood to get good soil into center in 10 or so places.

Here are some pics:

 

[mattspinniken]

 

[mattspinniken]

Ok so the above tree was the easier of the two and although it took me along time, the collection went really well. Here is candidate #2, a beast with about a 12” base and the foliage is about 6ft wide. The tree is hollow in the middle. All the roots are in the decomposing part of the old stump just like the other tree. I think I will need 2 helpers with waiters if I can make this work.

 

[Potawatomi13]

View attachment 257619

Descending branch has great character but rest of foliage/ tree has as well.

 

[PiñonJ]

Ok so the above tree was the easier of the two and although it took me along time, the collection went really well. Here is candidate #2, a beast with about a 12” base and the foliage is about 6ft wide. The tree is hollow in the middle.View attachment 259293 All the roots are in the decomposing part of the old stump just like the other tree. I think I will need 2 helpers with waiters if I can make this work.

Just make sure the waiters wear waders!
For the already-collected tree, I thought you were going to bury the stump in a grow bed to try to grow surface roots at the base of the trunk.

 

[mattspinniken]

Here is an update. I was able to get this White Cedar into a pot this spring without much trouble. It had plenty of roots to fold in. @sorce its not a crazy impressive tree but it has a nice feel to it in person, do you like it more now or not sure? I think it looks pretty decent in a pot.