Help. Help. Help

[Fidur]

I'm very worried about something that is happening to almost all my chamaecyparis thyoides. And almost all under different circunstances and locations in my garden. One was recently repoted (2 months ago), other was repoted 2 years ago, others have never been repoted. Some are under 12-14 full sun hours, others 2 or 3 full sun, and under a 50% shade the rest of the day). They are all watered and fertilized regularly, as they have been for the last 3 years.
The fist pic shows the most affected. I spotted the problem in it, 1 month ago, and 2 weeks ago I saw it in the big one and others. At that moment they were not close to each other


Others are affected in different degrees.
For unkown reasons, they're drying their branches. Not all the branches. It begins ,drying the lower branches (from close to the trunk to their tips), and then going up to the next lower branches, and so on.
At first it seemed like the usual drying of some foliage in the inner branches, something I thought normal because of the lack of light. But when it progressed to the tips of the foliage , I begun to watch closely, and so, I inspected the soil and roots. All my soils are 80% akadama + 20% lava. Everything looked all right. There are no bugs or pests I can fight
Still have some hope that this desease stops, but as days go by, even the ones that seemed unaffected are beginning to develop the first symptoms of drying



The only parameter that has changed in the last months is the water quality. I use regularly rain collected water, and in summer my R.O. system. But the R.O. was broken and so, I've been using tap water for a couple of months. My tap water is very high in calcium, and don't even know its ph. Until I can fix the R.O. system or it rains, I could be slowly killing them...., (though it seems incredible that non of my 100 remaining trees are affected) so my next step will be to buy a new R.O. system and install it.

Now, these are some of my most cherised trees and I feel so impotent.
Nothing I can do, it seems.
Have any of you any helping tip or clue on what's going on?.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Wow. Hope you figure it out. I think you may be on to somethinf with the water.... according to wikipedia, maybe they have not been wet enough or in an acidic enough environment, which seems to be their natural preference. I hope it is not some fatal fungus, bacteria, or disease.

Chamaecyparis thyoides - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Paradox]

If you think it's the pH of the water, try adding something to lower the pH. Get a test kit and test the pH first to be sure

 

[ShimpakuBonsai]

I've had some problems with a Chamaecyparis Pisifera and some Junipers Chinensis at the start of this summer.
They got some browning on the foliage and the young branches and it spread out over larger parts of the plants.

The plants all lost some branches due to this problem and I couldn't find out what is was.
My guess is it was some fungal problem and at one moment I was thinking of buying some copper sulfate to spray the infected plants.
But after a few weeks it stabalized and the plants started growing new foliage ans shoots without any treatment.

I hope you find out what the problem is.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Your water might also be high in chloroamines. This can be a problem too.

I remember visiting the isles and the tap water tasted terrible.

 

[Fidur]

My suspicion, if it makes any sense, is that the calcium may be clogging the roots, preventing the absorption of water and nutrients.
In any case, I will try to get a new reverse osmosis system up and running asap.
I will use this same thread to keep up to date with the development of this problem.
Edit: And about the ph, as my azaleas are not showing any problem, I guess it's not the reason of the issue.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

First off, great to see some Japanese cedars in a post. The first nursery tree I bought to try my hand at bonsai with was a Japanese cedar. I especially like your forest composition.
Our tap water is well water that's very hard with calcium and iron. Nevertheless, my Chamaecyparis seems healthy. Then again, other than occasional rainwater, my tap water is all it's ever known.
I keep mine where it gets sunshine about 80% of the day and have it in a well drained, mostly inorganic mix. Afraid I don't have much more to offer. How yours recover, and I'd love to see more Chamaecyparis featured in posts on here.

 

[Fidur]

First off, great to see some Japanese cedars in a post. The first nursery tree I bought to try my hand at bonsai with was a Japanese cedar. I especially like your forest composition.
Our tap water is well water that's very hard with calcium and iron. Nevertheless, my Chamaecyparis seems healthy. Then again, other than occasional rainwater, my tap water is all it's ever known.
I keep mine where it gets sunshine about 80% of the day and have it in a well drained, mostly inorganic mix. Afraid I don't have much more to offer. How yours recover, and I'd love to see more Chamaecyparis featured in posts on here.

Imagine what I feel when I think I could loose these (and many more):



Anyway, it seems not all my chamaecyparis are affected. My obtusa "nana" and "little jaimie" are fine. My thyoides "top point" is showing the first symptoms:

 

[dancing with butterflies]

Maybe it's wooly bugs, I know that's not what they are called fully but seriously they can hurt carnifers like yours and hemlock



I would cut out all the bad growth and some healthy growth too around it and try neem oil

 

[dancing with butterflies]

Look for tiny whitish lice like bugs

 

[dancing with butterflies]

If it was water wouldn't all your trees have it that's why I think this could be a different issue

 

[NJtsr95]

Hmm. These are for sure Chaemycyparis Thyoides?? Is it a special cultivar or something? I have three tubelings myself purchased in May as well as some Yamadori seedlings and all of mine have only a very small amount or almost no juvenile foliage (the juvenile-juniper like “spiky” foliage), even a three inch tall seedling is making transition to scale foliage. Mine are MUCH younger, thickest being about pencil thick trunk. But I do have a lot of experience hiking and observing them in their natural habitat (i love hiking bogs in the barrens).

The thing that struck out to me is you say they’re planted in almost entirely Akadama/Volc grit? It’s possible IMO they’re regularly drying up by draining too fast and they tend to not respond well to roots drying out. I attempted to plant a tiny seedling in an akadama with moss thimble pot but immediately could tell it was drying out and going to die so i put it in a denser peaty soil.

These are found naturally in what they call “sugar sand” mixed slopes (with P. Rigida often taking over and becoming dominant further uphill and towards apex of hill) and C. Thyoides is often found on moist slopes (like one which faces north and drains into a water body or stream).

Where C. Thyoides is truly dominant you will notice is EXTREMELY moist areas, it is an “Obligate Wetland” species, after all. It grows on like Moss stumps sitting 6” above a blackwater (very acidic) stream that flows year round. In the wild it forms long taproots that seem to reach well down into the peat below the moss, below the water table and are likely very moist year round. If there’s a species that doesn’t mind having its feet wet, besides T. Distichum (Bald Cypress), a close runner up is definitely C. Thyoides.

Now I’m not the most experienced in Bonsai whatsoever, so take the words as a grain of salt. Simply pointing out my obs here.

To me it sounds like not enough moisture. Perhaps consider adding a bit of weight to your soil? Mine came in nursery tubelings that were grown in a peaty, dense soil, and in training I have preserved all of that soil, mixing it about 50/50 with sand, C. Thyoides bark (collected from fallen log), pine bark (same collected) and a small amount of akadama and coarse perlite just to add some volume and drainage. Teased the roots into a more horizontal training pot, and sphagnum moss over top, and they seem quite healthy with dense scale foliage and one of them has developed particularly beautifully dense, bluishgreen, feathery small scales with very short internodes compared to the other two. Not exactly sure why that is but nonetheless my point is mine only have juvenile foliage on the bottom inch or two of the stem.

I do not know if Chaemycyparis spp. behaves like some Juniperus spp. that have a tendency to revert to juvenile foliage when stressed, either from damage, drought, disease, or pests, root damage, etc. But perhaps it’s something to consider as a possibility? While it certainly presents a more picturesque bonsai, and i admit the juvenile Chaemycyparis foliage is quite nice and soft compared to the spikier juniper juvenile foliage, perhaps its the tree trying to tell you “too much! Not enough water! I’m stressed”. Just thinking out loud and mentioning the types of environments i typically observe these in the wild.

 

[Fidur]

Update:
Things have worsened, even though my RO is already set and running.





I've been suggested (reddit) , this can be phythophthora fungus, and I think it may be right. So I applied yesterday some specific fungicide (fosetil Al 80% , in a dosege of 3g per liter).
And here I am, fingers crossed and terrified. Wish me luck.
I'll update in 15 days....

 

[brentwood]

I think you're probably on the right track with fungal issue, my take on these is that they get that easily, and the foliage is a good environment for it to flourish. The information above about moist soil is interesting, I've always gone the other way, quick draining media - I need to rethink that.
Good luck!
B

 

[Hartinez]

I’m late to the party here Fidur. But I think your water change is the prime culprit. It’s not causing the fungal problem, but it’s weakening the tree enough for the fungus that was probably already floating around to infect the tree. You’re def in an uphill battle, and it’ll probs get worse before it gets better.

I went through something similar in 2020, when I went from my city, just good enough, water, to my dads well water. His well water was no bueno. Weakened my trees and disease blasted through half my collection. Totally sucked. Only thing that I changed was the water.

Either way, sounds like you found a fix. I hope it gets better for you!

Here was my issues post.

Thread 'Fungal Issues across the board. Any help would be great.'

Aug 26, 2020

Hey all. I feel like this is just how 2020 is going. I’ve got issues across the board. Nothing seems isolated. I’ve never had trees look this bad all at once this time of year. WTF. Any help on ANYTHING would be fruitful. I’ve moved twice. Using daconil here and there. But that’s it. Some trees still look good, but dam I’m struggling. Some of this is recent, some has been persistent. It’s really disheartening with everything else happening. Would be fully depressed if I lost half my collection.

• Hartinez
• Replies: 36
• Forum: General Discussion

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[nuttiest]

I see you have identified this possibly and things got better with the fosetyl. Shocked when I saw a photo of how well everything else was a month later on another thread. Are you using anything in between? I am going through the same thing with junipers and that fungicide seemed to be working but I don't want to wait the 4 weeks in between treatment, looking for another systemic that I might already have. Propi?

 

[Fidur]

I see you have identified this possibly and things got better with the fosetyl. Shocked when I saw a photo of how well everything else was a month later on another thread. Are you using anything in between? I am going through the same thing with junipers and that fungicide seemed to be working but I don't want to wait the 4 weeks in between treatment, looking for another systemic that I might already have. Propi?

Really things are not fine. I made those pics to convince me that a wider view shows there is no true disaster (yet).
I've been applying fosetil systemic fungicide for 2 months (every week, wich is the limit).
I was late for some (5 trees already dead), and with others, it seems the fungic infection has slowed pace, but hasn´t finished.
So, as you, I'm having a very steep journey, and a week ago, I used hydrogen peroxide (3%) to help the roots.
I also have doubts about the culprit of this mess, so I have bought a new systemic fungicide with different active principles, and probably will use it in a week or so.
So, my most loved trees are right now infected (at slow pace) and it's not clear the final result of my actions. They looked like this yesterday:


In the meantime, if someone has any suggestion to improve this situation I would be very grateful.

 

[Contact]

Hi, I've got something similar some years ago with a chamaecimeparys boulevard. The only thing that worked for me was systemic fungicide spray. I've Lost a lot of branches in that occasion but the tree survived...hoping the best for you, hope you start with the systemic spray asap

 

[leatherback]

I am going to counter here. I doubt this is Phytophthora.

This disease is not typically airborn as far as I know. Travelling from pot to pot can only happen by using substrate from one pot to another.
Next to this, it requires pretty wet conditions in the pot to occur. For your conifers I would doubt this to be the case.

The wide-spread infection and growing conditions you most likely have on the spanish isles make me greatly doubt your infection identification.

Have you checked for e.g., spider mites? The clumpy occurance on the foliage makes something (Insects, mites, fungal) living in/on the foliage more likely.