Growing large trunks

[Easymode.rl]

Would it be possible to grow a 5-in trunk with something like this, prefer to keep it out of the ground, limited space and want to grow multiple trees. Was thinking something easy diehard tree species, maybe Chinese elm and Common Juniper, Mulberry, something that can survive my many mistakes along this journey.

For a potting mix I was thinking, sand, perlite, peat moss for trunk development.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Common Juniper,

If you mean juniperus communis, then no. They might be common in large parts of the world but they are very finicky about their root system.

Other plants, sure! Just don't move the container around too much since it's flexible.

 

[yenling83]

Would it be possible to grow a 5-in trunk with something like this, prefer to keep it out of the ground, limited space and want to grow multiple trees. Was thinking something easy diehard tree species, maybe Chinese elm and Common Juniper, Mulberry, something that can survive my many mistakes along this journey.

For a potting mix I was thinking, sand, perlite, peat moss for trunk development.

Agree w/ @Wires_Guy_wires

You can def use those types of pots, or any type of container. Those should dry out a bit faster compared to a solid container without holes on the sides. Personally I just use coarse Perlite to grow trunks. Another good option could be Perlite and Coco Coir. Work on the roots each time you repot is super important in the beginning. Bonsaify aka @Eric Schrader has some really great content on Youtube for getting started with growing trunks. I'd highly suggest diving into his videos! I got the soil mix from him

 

[Easymode.rl]

Agree w/ @Wires_Guy_wires

You can def use those types of pots, or any type of container. Those should dry out a bit faster compared to a solid container without holes on the sides. Personally I just use coarse Perlite to grow trunks. Another good option could be Perlite and Coco Coir. Work on the roots each time you repot is super important in the beginning. Bonsaify aka @Eric Schrader has some really great content on Youtube for getting started with growing trunks. I'd highly suggest diving into his videos! I got the soil mix from him

Yeah I'm just concerned about how long it will take, and if there's enough room for root growth to achieve a 5-in trunk, I will check that guy out for sure. I figured the air printing pots would help to build a more robust and lateral root system, and help to avoid pot bounding. I'm sure there's got to be some kind of understanding about how much root area I need per inch of trunk. I want to grow in a timely manner. All I have are twigs, I can't even tell people I do bonsai because if they see what I'm growing they would just laugh.

 

[BonsaiManic]

All I have are twigs, I can't even tell people I do bonsai because if they see what I'm growing they would just laugh.

I think this is how we all start out. Or, I hope that's the case, because otherwise, I'm doing it completely wrong!

 

[eugenev2]

Yeah I'm just concerned about how long it will take, and if there's enough room for root growth to achieve a 5-in trunk, I will check that guy out for sure. I figured the air printing pots would help to build a more robust and lateral root system, and help to avoid pot bounding. I'm sure there's got to be some kind of understanding about how much root area I need per inch of trunk. I want to grow in a timely manner. All I have are twigs, I can't even tell people I do bonsai because if they see what I'm growing they would just laugh.

When you say twigs....do you mean pencil thin twigs? Because i would be hesitant of sticking a pencil size stick in a pot that is a 100L.
Out of personal experience i would recommend smaller pots first and up pot as required, ie if it's seedlings you can possibly up pot up to 3 times in a year, slightly older material, most likely yearly during spring. The reason for my recommendation, is that the substrate tends to stay wetter for longer in overly larger pots which impedes root growth...i've tried and tested this and can confirm my trees that were up-potted in a just in time fashion, just as the roots filled the pot, has grown much more than overly large pots.
Also, when you refer to sand, i hope you are referring to something else rather than your garden variety? i would not add that as that would add no value to the mix, unless you are referring to something like silica sand, which can be a useful as it adds weight and can serve as a spacer

 

[Shibui]

Some of those air pruning pots have a bottom but most are just the sides with no base. They are usually set up on plastic sheet to stop the roots getting down into the soil.
faster growing trees should fill the pot with roots in a season then you can move the pot around if required though 25 gallons of soil and a tree will weigh more than I care to lift.
20" pot should be plenty to get a reasonably quick result but might not be best to stick tiny plants straight into 25 gal pots.
I would just use good quality potting soil. It's designed to grow plants in pots. You can swap it out for bonsai soil when the trees move into proper bonsai pots.
Junipers are much slower growing so don't expect a great tree under 15 years. The others might get there in 10?

 

[Dogestoevsky]

Do remember that in order to get a large trunk, you have to let the tree get large! Big 12’ tall suckers sitting around that you can’t move. Not saying you can’t do it or shouldn’t try, but it will be a long time before it’s fun. Do your best to build an interesting base, because that’s all that will be kept from the first 5-10 years of work. Keep us updated

 

[PA_Penjing]

Dawn redwood and American elm put on girth rapidly and will both enjoy your climate. In my experience Chinese elm will grow quickly but is very slow to bulk up and highly susceptible to black spot which starts to slow it down. I used to plant one tree every year so that (in theory) I could dig up a new tree to play with every year after the five to seven year starting point. But I’ve culled my collection away before it ever really got rolling

 

[dbonsaiw]

A five inch trunk is pretty hefty. This will take time to grow if you are starting small and, depending on the species, could be a very, very long time. Then a chop and start the process all over again. Nowadays, I try to start with a trunk that is closer to my anticipated final girth to save the time.

Growing large trees in pots also has its limitations. The root system will need plenty of space to grow to support a large tree with lots of foliage. Also, don't underestimate how easy it is for trees to simply fall over when they are tall and living in a pot.

If you're going big and want to grow it in a pot, I would suggest up-potting into progressively larger containers. Wider than deep is always good and will also help prevent the tree from falling over. I've been doing this with a dawn redwood and the final repot was into a 24X24X12 grow box that is open on the bottom. This way it grows into the ground and will be a tad easier do eventually dig up (as I will just saw off at ground level and work the roots from there).

Speaking of, I would recommend a dawn redwood for growing large trunks. I have been able to get about 4" from a stick in just a few years. By comparison, a Japanese maple would probably take a decade longer.

 

[brentwood]

Before I put that kind of money into a pot, I'd grow out smaller material in pond baskets - sides are equally open, and a lot might run you $5. Get a couple years in that while you and the tree grow with the hobby.
Good luck!
B

 

[badatusernames]

How long would folks keep them in air pruning pots before working the roots? I have some in pond baskets, and I'm tempted to just plop the pond baskets into Anderson flats to give it even more room.

Have been wondering if next year I should take a look and repot, it's been a few years.

 

[Shibui]

How long would folks keep them in air pruning pots before working the roots? I have some in pond baskets, and I'm tempted to just plop the pond baskets into Anderson flats to give it even more room.

Have been wondering if next year I should take a look and repot, it's been a few years.

That depends on what species you are growing.
Fast growers like tridents where nebari is very important I root prune every year or 2. That does not seem to slow thickening but it does give a much, much better root system and nebari.
Slower growers like pines and junipers are root pruned a couple of times early to start good root system then left for 5-7 years before going back to the roots again.

 

[Easymode.rl]

A five inch trunk is pretty hefty. This will take time to grow if you are starting small and, depending on the species, could be a very, very long time. Then a chop and start the process all over again. Nowadays, I try to start with a trunk that is closer to my anticipated final girth to save the time.

Growing large trees in pots also has its limitations. The root system will need plenty of space to grow to support a large tree with lots of foliage. Also, don't underestimate how easy it is for trees to simply fall over when they are tall and living in a pot.

If you're going big and want to grow it in a pot, I would suggest up-potting into progressively larger containers. Wider than deep is always good and will also help prevent the tree from falling over. I've been doing this with a dawn redwood and the final repot was into a 24X24X12 grow box that is open on the bottom. This way it grows into the ground and will be a tad easier do eventually dig up (as I will just saw off at ground level and work the roots from there).

Speaking of, I would recommend a dawn redwood for growing large trunks. I have been able to get about 4" from a stick in just a few years. By comparison, a Japanese maple would probably take a decade longer.

Yeah I was thinking about maybe contacting some tree service, and maybe having them dig up sell a trunk for me. But you know it's hard so particular trees, could probably get a juniper this way. But it is something I have thought about. But I'm sure that comes with its own set of problems. I will look into dawn redwoods.

 

[badatusernames]

That depends on what species you are growing.
Fast growers like tridents where nebari is very important I root prune every year or 2. That does not seem to slow thickening but it does give a much, much better root system and nebari.
Slower growers like pines and junipers are root pruned a couple of times early to start good root system then left for 5-7 years before going back to the roots again.

The one I’m thinking of is ume, which seems to thicken fairly quickly, so maybe next year I should check it out!

 

[SeanS]

The one I’m thinking of is ume, which seems to thicken fairly quickly, so maybe next year I should check it out!

The 2 Ume I’ve had in the ground for 1 season only have thickened tremendously. One white, one pink. The white is far stronger and has doubled in thickness, and is now 3m tall (from around 1.5m when I planted it). A small shari I added to the trunk has basically healed over and the new tissue surrounding the shari is 0.5” thick (0.5” deep “crevice” down to the deadwood).
I’d definitely recommend ground growing Ume

 

[leatherback]

All I have are twigs, I can't even tell people I do bonsai because if they see what I'm growing they would just laugh

well, then maybe they do not know what they are talking about?

I find the obsession with thick trunks a bit odd tbh.

Keep in mind, from tweig to 5 inch trunks will take a dozen pot sizes. Do not plant twigs in large containers.

 

[badatusernames]

The 2 Ume I’ve had in the ground for 1 season only have thickened tremendously. One white, one pink. The white is far stronger and has doubled in thickness, and is now 3m tall (from around 1.5m when I planted it). A small shari I added to the trunk has basically healed over and the new tissue surrounding the shari is 0.5” thick (0.5” deep “crevice” down to the deadwood).
I’d definitely recommend ground growing Ume

I don’t have a ton of room for ground growing, but I do have one white I put in the ground this year (did it late summer though so not much yet)

Another white in the pond basket is growing like you’re describing, it’s super tall and has thickened well the past couple of years

I had sorta thought the point of air pruning roots like that was so you didn’t need to repot so my initial plan had been to give it a few more years, but I’m going to take a peek in spring….

 

[Easymode.rl]

Agree w/ @Wires_Guy_wires

You can def use those types of pots, or any type of container. Those should dry out a bit faster compared to a solid container without holes on the sides. Personally I just use coarse Perlite to grow trunks. Another good option could be Perlite and Coco Coir. Work on the roots each time you repot is super important in the beginning. Bonsaify aka @Eric Schrader has some really great content on Youtube for getting started with growing trunks. I'd highly suggest diving into his videos! I got the soil mix from him

Yeah I looked into those videos but he has so many and I couldn't find the title of which one you're referring to or where he goes through trunks. He doesn't seem like he has one 's explicitly about some trunk thickening.

 

[pmalelis]

Yeah I'm just concerned about how long it will take, and if there's enough room for root growth to achieve a 5-in trunk, I will check that guy out for sure. I figured the air printing pots would help to build a more robust and lateral root system, and help to avoid pot bounding. I'm sure there's got to be some kind of understanding about how much root area I need per inch of trunk. I want to grow in a timely manner. All I have are twigs, I can't even tell people I do bonsai because if they see what I'm growing they would just laugh.

I would be less concerned about people laughing. I have come to embrace the development aspect. Whether they will ever get to refined Bonsai who knows.