Gustavo Martins
Omono
I am
Green mound juniper
- Thread starter MrBeto
- Start date
I am
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
My theory: Every thing is governed by genetics for the most part. If you have had much to do with this species of Juniper you have probably noticed that when it comes to trunks they have none.
The tree is for the most part a prostrate tree (oxymoron) that lays on the ground. It does not need a heavy trunk to support it's weight. It is more than likely going to layer itself into attached clones as it ages and never gains the kind of above ground mass that requires large and heavy trunks to support.
These trunks can be induced by staking the tree upright and making certain the tree does not develop any way but up. If you grow the tree in the ground you will get normal Procumbens growth if you grow in a pot you will probably pay attention to what the tree is doing otherwise and an upright fat trunk will be the results.
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Gustavo Martins
Omono
That makes sense. The phenotype (what we see) is the result of the interplay between the genotype and the environment. The pot (and to an extent our manipulations) influence a number of variables that differ from when a tree is left in the ground to grow by itself which can obviously determine its habit.
Do you notice this only with this species or with all the Junipers?
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Mostly with this species at least in trunk development. It is however interesting about Shimpakus. Left to themselves their branches tend to be straight and angular. Once nature bashes them around or we start training them as bonsai the branches can be given nice movement and a lot of dead wood. Of course I am not familiar with every variety of Juniper. Shimpaiu's natural growth is what is known as sectored architecture, a root to branch specific relationship. Lose a branch lose a life line often all the way into the root system. This is why Shimpakus have all of this dead wood all over it.
Too many people out there do not take the time to understand what causes the kind of growth we see in some of these trees and what happens to them visually when something does happen.
It is possible to cut a lot of dead wood into a Juniper but if you do not do it the way nature would do it the effect will look false and the results in the end could be disastrous to the tree if you manage to cut across too many life lines. These dead wood effects are in nature the results of how the tree grows or does not grow and how it dies and does not die. If you do not understand this stuff your tree will be a disappointment and no manner of hubris will cover it up.
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Japonicus
Masterpiece
I've also found that a one time manhandling right out of the nursery pot to be very tolerable for heavy root work.
It takes after care, and I like to use rooting hormone, some mycorrhizal fungi followed with a B1 root enhancing
concoction with superthrive, KLN and ProTekt (silicon) every 2 wks after root work. Sounds like a lot, but
I've never lost one to repotting using this concoction.
My main issue with procumbens has been to keep them properly watered in the hot heat of the Summer on a blistering porch
since I'm gone most of the day. Aside from that, I think they're a fantastically easy juniper to care for
Wintering and their care, they need water now and then if not snow bound, and some wind protection as any other juniper.
Easy peasy, but I have had 3 sudden unexplained losses over the years.
Still unsure if this juniper has the symbiotic relationship between root and branch as Vance mentioned
both in Mughos and now Shimpaku.
Japonicus
Masterpiece
Yes but you are on the cusp of its plant hardiness grow zone (9)
If it goes dormant consistently it should do you ok. If it misses a couple years with interrupted dormancy
it will begin to fail. One year can weaken it, but the more dormancy it is deprived the weaker it becomes.
Thus Florida doesn't have a lot of WP, same thing with this one.
I don't know how many years it could skip true dormancy, in otherwise ideal conditions, but the more the worse.
So we're a year in since your post here MrBeto. How is this one doing? What have you done with it?
MrBeto
Mame
I’m sorry to say that it was washed away during hurricane harvey. I was able to put almost all my trees out of danger. But that one.
Japonicus
Masterpiece
Well shux . Sorry about that. You do get a lot of weather down there for sure.
Mr. Wood, Im a big fan, and have been following your Mugo instructions for sometime, So I need to thank you for that.
Since you have mentioned, my favorite juniper, if not species, I am curious on your thoughts on developing them, I have numerous in that stage, and few small ones that will stay small. But for developing them, 1. trunk girth 2.. nebari., well basically just good strong growth, you know what that is, haha. your thoughts on that? Ground? colanders? raised bed? anyting else you might suggest. I use pretty much all inorganic, im in Mass., I am just wanting vigorous growth for 5 years, and your thoughts for Shimp's would be appreciated and respected. I have read&watched many different instructions, and have some in everything, ha. to learn the ole' fashioned way...by experience! But your thoughts are welcomed. Be well.
I also made one of your mesh basket/boxes that you patented, still bothers me, after hearing how that didn't work out. topic for another day.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I have found that any method of growing them out will only produce larger trunks if the tree is propped up and staked upright so that the tree is forced to support the trunk. A tree is like any other organism; it will only do what it has to do that is beyond genetic design and has been forced to make a reaction. You will notice with these trees that have been trained in this manner almost always they will have unsupported tops seeking the ground.
