Foundling Juniper (Juniperus virginiana??)

[JBP_85]

Hi Everyone,
I was walking my dogs through a local park yesterday and came across a downed oak tree. We’ve had a lot of rain and high winds lately. When the oak fell it uprooted some other plants at its base. This Juniper (at least I think it’s a juniper, possibly juniperus virginiana from my research) was upturned on the outer edge of the oak with around 50% of the root mass exposed. I grabbed a doggie bag and to put the tree in and made my way home with it. I put it into a flower pot with some left over potting soil I had laying around. This morning I did some pruning and wired it into shape. This is my first wiring a tree and my first juniper as well. I’d be interested in hearing from the community on their thoughts on my wiring and styling of this tree. I did my best to follow the two branch principal and from my reading it seems like juniper branches are typically styled downward. With that in mind I styled this poky little tree. I have no idea how long it has been partially uprooted so I don’t know if it will survive or not. Unfortunately I forgot to take a before photo of the tree that would have shown my pruning choices. I basically pruned anything growing directly towards me from the front and anything growing straight up or straight down. I wasn’t looking to acquire a new tree but it kind of fell into my lap and figured it would be a good practice tree. I look forward to reading your comments and learning along the way.

 

[Gabler]

Yup. Definitely an eastern redcedar. The good news about junipers is that they draw their strength from their foliage, so messing with the roots won't bother them as much as it bothers pines. The bad news is that there also isn't a lot of green on the tree. Enough. Not a lot. Let it grow unrestrained, and then remove just the tips of the newer branches at the end of next summer to encourage back-budding the following season. Once the foliage thickens up, maybe you can remove some of the lower branches and style the tree as a literati/bunjin. You may want to add some movement to the trunk for that purpose. Wait till next summer, though. No sense in stressing the tree any more right now.

 

[JBP_85]

Yup. Definitely an eastern redcedar. The good news about junipers is that they draw their strength from their foliage, so messing with the roots won't bother them as much as it bothers pines. The bad news is that there also isn't a lot of green on the tree. Enough. Not a lot. Let it grow unrestrained, and then remove just the tips of the newer branches at the end of next summer to encourage back-budding the following season. Once the foliage thickens up, maybe you can remove some of the lower branches and style the tree as a literati/bunjin. You may want to add some movement to the trunk for that purpose. Wait till next summer, though. No sense in stressing the tree any more right now.

Thanks for the response and for confirming the species for me. I wasn’t aware about the foliage being the main source of energy. Will definitely keep that in mind and follow your advice on this. I definitely want to add some movement to the tree but will hold off as you suggested. I don’t have any thicker gauge wire handy at the moment as this tree was completely unexpected but I’ll follow your advice and not stress it further for now. Thanks again!

 

[HorseloverFat]

Nice! You’ve really jumped right in, and worked with what you got.. no hesitation.. respect!

The above advice given is solid.

This will be a fun project to apply your knowledge to, over the years. Have fun with it.

Look for more to dig in spring.. peruse for beefy and interesting

 

[HorseloverFat]

Thanks for the response and for confirming the species for me. I wasn’t aware about the foliage being the main source of energy. Will definitely keep that in mind and follow your advice on this. I definitely want to add some movement to the tree but will hold off as you suggested. I don’t have any thicker gauge wire handy at the moment as this tree was completely unexpected but I’ll follow your advice and not stress it further for now. Thanks again!

Yes! Beware!

The first ERC I got.. I MIS-identified as cryptomeria (don’t judge )... and after my first harder styling, died promptly..

I had removed all the tips.

 

[JBP_85]

Yes! Beware!

The first ERC I got.. I MIS-identified as cryptomeria (don’t judge )... and after my first harder styling, died promptly..

I had removed all the tips.

Oh that sucks! I am in no position to judge anyone here lol...I have all of about five minutes of experience. Learning is what it’s all about!

 

[HorseloverFat]

Oh that sucks! I am in no position to judge anyone here lol...I have all of about five minutes of experience. Learning is what it’s all about!

Definitely! I consider it as learning how NOT to kill an Eastern Red Cedar... and you know what?.. I ALSO learned how to root ERC cuttings through the process... and the plant “lives on” so to speak through three little “clones”....

It’s ALL about building your experience and knowledge “armory”... you find out what works for YOU... not everyone is great with every weapon. Find your most comfortable skillset, build and exercise your abilities from there.

From what you’ve shown, you are very comfortable in this arena already.. It took me a long time to wire my first tree.. it was an intimidating/daunting seeming task, that I had witnessed others being “blasted” for performing poorly...

Experience and learning BUILD your foundational perspective... things.. shift. New tastes appear, old tastes refine.

Wiring is NOW my favorite procedure, at this point in my TinyTree adventure.... but things change.... fluidity becomes an adaptable constant.

 

[HorseloverFat]

(Reading that back, its fairly clear what I ate((inhaled)) for lunch)

 

[JBP_85]

Definitely! I consider it as learning how NOT to kill an Eastern Red Cedar... and you know what?.. I ALSO learned how to root ERC cuttings through the process... and the plant “lives on” so to speak through three little “clones”....

It’s ALL about building your experience and knowledge “armory”... you find out what works for YOU... not everyone is great with every weapon. Find your most comfortable skillset, build and exercise your abilities from there.

From what you’ve shown, you are very comfortable in this arena already.. It took me a long time to wire my first tree.. it was an intimidating/daunting seeming task, that I had witnessed others being “blasted” for performing poorly...

Experience and learning BUILD your foundational perspective... things.. shift. New tastes appear, old tastes refine.

Wiring is NOW my favorite procedure, at this point in my TinyTree adventure.... but things change.... fluidity becomes an adaptable constant.

Ya, my first principal at this juncture is do no harm lol. I’ve been lurking here for a while and have been reading on the hobby but reading and doing are two different things as I’m sure you know lol. My latest book is the Little Book of Bonsai by Jonas Dupuich and my go to Bonsai Channel on YouTube is Herons Bonsai with Peter Chan (I’m sure there are many others and would appreciate any recommendations). Both have given good insight into the hobby. Now I just have to piece it all together and start putting it all into practice.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Yup. Definitely an eastern redcedar. The good news about junipers is that they draw their strength from their foliage, so messing with the roots won't bother them as much as it bothers pines. The bad news is that there also isn't a lot of green on the tree. Enough. Not a lot. Let it grow unrestrained, and then remove just the tips of the newer branches at the end of next summer to encourage back-budding the following season. Once the foliage thickens up, maybe you can remove some of the lower branches and style the tree as a literati/bunjin. You may want to add some movement to the trunk for that purpose. Wait till next summer, though. No sense in stressing the tree any more right now.

In weak junipers I can highly suggest to just let them grow for a couple years. Reducing the tips next year could result in an auxin drop that it'll never overcome.
I remove the tips in seedlings because they're so vigorous and they pop out low branches all over. Larger trees benefit from letting these tips grow until they're fully extended and then cutting back. Bare wood like this usually back buds pretty OK on its own when it's exposed to the elements, usually from the nodes and sometimes at more random positions.

ERC might suck for bonsai because of their foliar habits and the fact that they're very susceptible for disease, but it's good learner material.
Some general juniper advice I wished I had on my first day:
- Always work from the outside inwards when removing stuff: Chasing back the foliage. If there are branches close to the trunk with foliage, remove the outer parts and not those branches on the inside. They'll get stronger over time and they'll give you something to work with, in other words: avoid the pompom (bare branches with foliage on the ends). It's generally advised to remove 'weak growth', but look at and consider what those people are working on: highly developed and highly refined trees or trees that were selected to fit a profile, not wild starter material. I've grown out weak branches to strong branches in three years, and now I can develop those branches from the first few millimeters away from the trunk. I'm not going to have to graft for the next decade.
- Keep in mind that branches and trunks can be twisted nearly 360 degrees. So if there's better foliage on top and poor foliage on the sides, just twist it.
- Wire movement in the trunk first, always. Even before trimming anything. Setting branches and pruning shouldn't be overlooked, but if you turn a straight telephone pole into a noodle, it's better to have foliage everywhere to choose from, compared to "Oh damn, this branch ended up on the inside of a bend and now I have 4 inches of bare trunk where I clipped off the stuff I didn't think I needed.. But I kind of need it now." If this doesn't make sense right now, trust me, it will at your fourth or fifth juniper. Here too this goes against the general consensus, but I've noticed that my designs improved a whole lot by themselves if I just do the trunk first, then set a few branches and then decide on what I'm never going to use in a design. I've removed heavy branches that I initially thought to be useful, but after wiring the trunk just didn't fit in. If the weak foliage is already gone, then.. You have nothing to build with.

I know the professionals on youtube teach us something different, but I'm willing to fight them over it.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Ya, my first principal at this juncture is do no harm lol. I’ve been lurking here for a while and have been reading on the hobby but reading and doing are two different things as I’m sure you know lol. My latest book is the Little Book of Bonsai by Jonas Dupuich and my go to Bonsai Channel on YouTube is Herons Bonsai with Peter Chan (I’m sure there are many others and would appreciate any recommendations). Both have given good insight into the hobby. Now I just have to piece it all together and start putting it all into practice.

I’ve heard good things about that book. I’m fond of Jonas’ work.

For me, Youtube “spurts” come and go... I like the classroom lecture-style videos the most. It’s either that or watching CERTAIN progressions of certain people’s trees ( That slowed once I became more active HERE)... Oooooh and SPECIFIC demonstrative videos.. like certain detail wiring and Apex “creation”.. but truth be told, once I started engaging with the FINE, tremendously wonderful people on this forum... my OTHER internet related pursuits of TinyTree knowledge “took a hit”

Books, for me, have proven the most beneficial source of “standardized” information possible.

Interfacing with other crazy-ass “tree folk”.. is number 2!

 

[sorce]

Seeing as how these little crack jumpers are everywhere, and a better one is highly likely to fall in your lap.....

I believe you are correct in your approach as "practice material".

Kill it slow!

Sorce

 

[hinmo24t]

i love those trees and was all excited about this one i found.
it had been mowed a few seasons, so it had a head start on bonsai

they get apple cedar rust in relation to apple trees within a certain radius

thats what happens around where i live.

orange goupey aliens



i learned all this here btw, enjoy the journey as HorseLover mentioned. fun hobby

 

[Gabler]

i love those trees and was all excited about this one i found.
it had been mowed a few seasons, so it had a head start on bonsai

they get apple cedar rust in relation to apple trees within a certain radius
View attachment 342806
thats what happens around where i live.

orange goupey aliens



i learned all this here btw, enjoy the journey as HorseLover mentioned. fun hobby

Cedar-apple rust will kill apples and hawthorns, but on eastern redcedars, it'll just kill the tip of a branch and produce a creepy alien fruiting body like the monster from John Carpenter's remake of The Thing. There are a number of widely-available effective fungicides, including a cultured strain of bacterium that targets and kills the fungus. If you don't have any apple or hawthorn in your area, then there's not much to worry about. It can't spread from cedar to cedar, only from apple to cedar or cedar to apple.

 

[JBP_85]

In weak junipers I can highly suggest to just let them grow for a couple years. Reducing the tips next year could result in an auxin drop that it'll never overcome.
I remove the tips in seedlings because they're so vigorous and they pop out low branches all over. Larger trees benefit from letting these tips grow until they're fully extended and then cutting back. Bare wood like this usually back buds pretty OK on its own when it's exposed to the elements, usually from the nodes and sometimes at more random positions.

ERC might suck for bonsai because of their foliar habits and the fact that they're very susceptible for disease, but it's good learner material.
Some general juniper advice I wished I had on my first day:
- Always work from the outside inwards when removing stuff: Chasing back the foliage. If there are branches close to the trunk with foliage, remove the outer parts and not those branches on the inside. They'll get stronger over time and they'll give you something to work with, in other words: avoid the pompom (bare branches with foliage on the ends). It's generally advised to remove 'weak growth', but look at and consider what those people are working on: highly developed and highly refined trees or trees that were selected to fit a profile, not wild starter material. I've grown out weak branches to strong branches in three years, and now I can develop those branches from the first few millimeters away from the trunk. I'm not going to have to graft for the next decade.
- Keep in mind that branches and trunks can be twisted nearly 360 degrees. So if there's better foliage on top and poor foliage on the sides, just twist it.
- Wire movement in the trunk first, always. Even before trimming anything. Setting branches and pruning shouldn't be overlooked, but if you turn a straight telephone pole into a noodle, it's better to have foliage everywhere to choose from, compared to "Oh damn, this branch ended up on the inside of a bend and now I have 4 inches of bare trunk where I clipped off the stuff I didn't think I needed.. But I kind of need it now." If this doesn't make sense right now, trust me, it will at your fourth or fifth juniper. Here too this goes against the general consensus, but I've noticed that my designs improved a whole lot by themselves if I just do the trunk first, then set a few branches and then decide on what I'm never going to use in a design. I've removed heavy branches that I initially thought to be useful, but after wiring the trunk just didn't fit in. If the weak foliage is already gone, then.. You have nothing to build with.

I know the professionals on youtube teach us something different, but I'm willing to fight them over it.

Thanks for all the good advice and lessons learned. I hadn’t heard of auxin before so I opened Wikipedia and started reading. Thanks for opening up that chapter for me as it seems critical. I’m always glad to have more to read up on. I have an obsessive personality type so I’ll be reading up on the subject for days now I’m sure lol.

 

[JBP_85]

i love those trees and was all excited about this one i found.
it had been mowed a few seasons, so it had a head start on bonsai

they get apple cedar rust in relation to apple trees within a certain radius
View attachment 342806
thats what happens around where i live.

orange goupey aliens



i learned all this here btw, enjoy the journey as HorseLover mentioned. fun hobby

That’s an awesome looking tree. I like the trunk color and the foliage looks very healthy. I also really like the container you have it in. I haven’t heard of apple cedar rust but it’s something I’ll be sure to be in the look out for.

 

[JBP_85]

Seeing as how these little crack jumpers are everywhere, and a better one is highly likely to fall in your lap.....

I believe you are correct in your approach as "practice material".

Kill it slow!

Sorce

I will do my best to kill it softly lol!

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Eastern red cedars are fun to work with and generally pretty hardy. Watch for rust, and as long as you keep your tips healthy, youre likely to get branching to cut back to.

Heres a little one of mine from earlier this summer.

 

[JBP_85]

Eastern red cedars are fun to work with and generally pretty hardy. Watch for rust, and as long as you keep your tips healthy, youre likely to get branching to cut back to.

Heres a little one of mine from earlier this summer.

Eastern red cedars are fun to work with and generally pretty hardy. Watch for rust, and as long as you keep your tips healthy, youre likely to get branching to cut back to.

Heres a little one of mine from earlier this summer.

View attachment 342894

That’s a good looking tree! I’m definitely hoping for more greenery eventually. I like the movement in your tunk, it’s subtle and not enough to be distracting. Thanks for sharing!