Found what I think is a Wild Crab Apple, advice on prepping for collection needed.

[just.wing.it]

Growing like a weed along the side of the driveway, I noticed a tree stretching out from the brush and weeds.
I'm pretty sure it's some kind of apple... maybe crab apple.

What is a crab apple as opposed to a regular apple that you'd eat?

This tree has 2 main trunks now and is hollow and rotten in the base...each trunk is between 13-16 feet tall, and look strong.
I haven't dug down to roots yet, but I don't care, I'm digging it up anyway.

I'm looking for any information I should know regarding apples, a better ID would be cool, and I want to know the best way to prep the tree for collection....and what up with the difference in leaves???like a mulberry?

Should I chop the trunk?
Trench the roots?
Now, fall, spring?
Thanks!

 

[peterbone]

I'd collect it now. It has quite a bit of low foliage, which should be retained. I'd pot it and submerge the whole pot in water for a couple of weeks. That should give it the best chance of survival since it will soon enter a strong root growth phase. Spring collection may be more stressful because it will have to grow new roots and put out new leaves at the same time. Prepping trees in the ground before collection often just weakens them. It can work but you have to be very patient and leave the tree at least 2 years before collection.

 

[just.wing.it]

I'd collect it now. It has quite a bit of low foliage, which should be retained. I'd pot it and submerge the whole pot in water for a couple of weeks. That should give it the best chance of survival since it will soon enter a strong root growth phase. Spring collection may be more stressful because it will have to grow new roots and put out new leaves at the same time. Prepping trees in the ground before collection often just weakens them. It can work but you have to be very patient and leave the tree at least 2 years before collection.

I was kind of hoping to hear someone say that! I had an inkling that it may be good now...
Thanks!

 

[peterbone]

I forgot to say that need need to provide frost protection over winter if collecting now. If you can't do that then wait for spring.

 

[just.wing.it]

I forgot to say that need need to provide frost protection over winter if collecting now. If you can't do that then wait for spring.

Absolutely, thanks...
I was also considering chopping the trunks...probably not to final height, but to make it manageable...

 

[peterbone]

Absolutely, thanks...
I was also considering chopping the trunks...probably not to final height, but to make it manageable...

You can chop them a bit but try to keep quite a bit of foliage. You can reduce further once it's recovered and growing strongly in a year or two.

 

[just.wing.it]

Advice taken.
Thanks @peterbone, I always appreciate another set of eyes on this kind of uncharted territory for me...

Mostly sawed out of the ground, the thick roots must stretch for yards underground...
Into lava and pumice and also into a plastic tub to soak for a while.



I dunno what the heat index and relative humidity is out here today, but it's hellish...
It's too damn hot to be doing this kinda shit....
Well, I'm now cooled down and rehydrated...time to crack a cold brew and peruse Bonsai Nut for a bit!

 

[just.wing.it]

Would removing some foliage be a good idea too?
There is quite a bit...but could removing it be counterintuitive to my goals?...with out many roots left...?

 

[rockm]

Um, Peter is in the U.K. His advice is fine--for the U.K.

For Maryland, it's not the best. I would NOT HAVE DUG this tree now. I would have simply waited for the spring.

There is no benefit in collecting it now, other than to satisfy your desire to have it in a pot. The tree will have an exponentially better chance of surviving if you collect it at the end of February.

Keep your fingers crossed it makes fall dormancy and lives through the winter.

 

[GGB]

definitely looks like crab. be careful if you have any juniper in your collection

 

[peterbone]

Um, Peter is in the U.K. His advice is fine--for the U.K.

For Maryland, it's not the best. I would NOT HAVE DUG this tree now. I would have simply waited for the spring.

There is no benefit in collecting it now, other than to satisfy your desire to have it in a pot. The tree will have an exponentially better chance of surviving if you collect it at the end of February.

Keep your fingers crossed it makes fall dormancy and lives through the winter.

I did say that he should provide winter protection and I assume he can do that since he collected it. My advice applies to temperate regions all over the world. Better chance of survival if collected now with appropriate aftercare, but I know it's difficult to go against decades of people doing something because everyone else says it's best.

 

[rockm]

I did say that he should provide winter protection and I assume he can do that since he collected it. My advice applies to temperate regions all over the world. Better chance of survival if collected now with appropriate aftercare, but I know it's difficult to go against decades of people doing something because everyone else says it's best.

Nope. Sorry. It's chances are much better if left in ground for spring collection, instead of sitting in a container with winter coming.

FWIW, I've dug apple and crabapple HERE...There is no upside to fall collection with our colder, longer winters. Simple patience is more of an advantage for the tree.

Also, What you are saying in your "advice" to "all temperate regions in the world" (wow, you don't get out much do ya?..English winters are hardly winters here) is that your advice is better because it's newer. Bull...It's just as bad to be a slave to the new as it is to the old. I do what works in my area and climate. The poster lives in my area. I stand by my advice. There is no reason to dig this before spring. There is no real advantage obtained through fall collection even though it's all the rage to do so.

 

[peterbone]

I don't see the difference that our varying winters would make if the collected tree is protected from low temperatures in a heated greenhouse. It has nothing to do with being "all the rage", it's based on science and experience. Myself and others have gone into the reasons on other threads so I won't repeat.

 

[rockm]

I don't think anyone is noting your advice on "heated" greenhouse here. It's not a given the folks you're advising understand that or have such a facility available.

You make no distinction between a "heated" greenhouse and a frost-free cold greenhouse (which is what this tree needs).

A heated greenhouse is for tropical plants. Enclosing an apple in a cold greenhouse comes with other issues--primarily mold, mildew and fungus that apples are prone to anyway.

As for the science, its a wash. The notion that digging in fall is because that's the most active time for root growth skips past the fact that you're still removing 95 percent of the tree's roots. It will have (and here is where duration of winter comes in) four to six months of inactivity. In the spring, you remove the same amount of roots, but have four to six months of active recovery INCLUDING THE MOST ACTIVE ROOT GROWTH PERIOD...

 

[peterbone]

My point about the greenhouse is that you must provide protection from frosts. In the UK I don't need a heated greenhouse to do that. In your location you would, or at least heat mats for pots. That's not outside the realm of possibility but if you can't then I fully agree that spring is the best time. Of course I wasn't suggesting a tropical greenhouse - the trees still need to be dormant.

My understanding is that the most active period of root growth is Autumn for most species, not spring. Also, in spring deciduous trees have to use most of their stored energy for foliage production, which doesn't leave much in reserve for root growth. My advice is mainly relating to deciduous trees such as that of the OP. I don't see why you think the period of inactivity following root growth is a concern as long as you can provide frost protection.

 

[rockm]

My point about the greenhouse is that you must provide protection from frosts. In the UK I don't need a heated greenhouse to do that. In your location you would, or at least heat mats for pots. That's not outside the realm of possibility but if you can't then I fully agree that spring is the best time. Of course I wasn't suggesting a tropical greenhouse - the trees still need to be dormant.

My understanding is that the most active period of root growth is Autumn for most species, not spring. Also, in spring deciduous trees have to use most of their stored energy for foliage production, which doesn't leave much in reserve for root growth. My advice is mainly relating to deciduous trees such as that of the OP. I don't see why you think the period of inactivity following root growth is a concern as long as you can provide frost protection.

Because in a cold frost free greenhouse, roots are inactive, but mold, fungus and rot are not. Wet wood rots. tissue die back.

Also I can't understand why you think cutting a trees roots in the most active growth period that is followed by a months' long period of non growth is superior to six months of active growth that includes that most active period of growth in a continuous time frame. It' s rather illogical...

 

[peterbone]

Because in a cold frost free greenhouse, roots are inactive, but mold, fungus and rot are not. Wet wood rots. tissue die back.

Also I can't understand why you think cutting a trees roots in the most active growth period that is followed by a months' long period of non growth is superior to six months of active growth that includes that most active period of growth in a continuous time frame. It' s rather illogical...

Of course careful attention should be given to prevent overly wet roots. I'm not suggesting to collect trees during the period of active root growth, I'm suggesting to collect trees *before* the period of active root growth. This is before the leaves fall in late summer / early autumn (i.e. now). You then make full use of that new growth in the trees recovery and the existing foliage on the tree creates hormones that stimulate root growth, which doesn't happen in spring until the tree has already exhausted a lot of energy to produce foliage that it may not yet have the roots to support.

 

[Lazylightningny]

Personally I would have waited until spring just to be on the safe side, but prove us wrong! I hope it makes it. My gut says to leave the foliage on so it fuels root growth.

 

[Zach Smith]

I'm with Mark, there's little advantage to collecting this tree now. To give it the best chance for survival, build a cold frame and heel the tree into some mulch at first frost. I'd defoliate if it were mine.

 

[just.wing.it]

Sorry for my absence guys....
Been a busy work day, on-call...
@rockm I hear you...and I greatly appreciate your input....
Obviously what's done is done...
It'll go in the garage this winter.

For now, I'll keep it soaking in the shade and see what happens...

@Zach Smith thank you for your input as well, you think defoliating would be a helpful move?
That was my initial thought too, which is why I asked...
It seems to make sense in my mind.


Fwiw, today was 90+ and the leaves are in good shape....I was wondering if they'd be droopy today.
I will cut the leaves off tomorrow....and keep my fingers crossed.

Thanks again guys.
Live and learn....I've been lucky so far with this kind of abusive behavior ?