First time college enrollment down 21.7% in 2020

Bonsai Nut

Bonsai Nut

Nuttier than your average Nut
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I'm completely anti the entire school system anyway, because it sucks!

Super Anti College Loan Debt.

It's been time for a change since around 1940, we're almost 100 years late!

Why aren't parents teaching new job skills at home? Oh yeah, they went through our education system!

Sorce
 
Those are sobering numbers, @Bonsai Nut, but if there was ever a year when taking a stop-out or a gap year was an obvious choice 2020 is it. I realize that opportunities for internships and other beneficial ways to spend a gap year are probably at a minimum as well, but there are other factors to consider. I have high hopes for 2021.
 
sorce said:
I'm completely anti the entire school system anyway, because it sucks!
Click to expand...

I agree that it needs a ton of work:
(1) You don't have to go to college to be successful. I think we as a society have created an expectation that without a college degree you can't succeed in the US. Wrong.
(2) There is something broken with the system when I hear about people being in debt $500,000 for a master's degree in English, when there is no way they will be able to get a job with that degree that can pay off the mountain of debt. This is not dumping on English majors... it is just a fact that there doesn't seem to be a correlation between the cost of the education and the market demand for the degree.
(3) We need to do a much better job creating skilled training programs - apprenticeships, technical and professional training, etc - for people who don't go to college. When I lived in Germany I was surprised to find that less than 1/3 of the population had a bachelor's degree or higher, and yet because of their professional development programs, people went on to work in manufacturing, education, the trades, etc, and did quite well.
 
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Some of you may not like to hear the truth, but the education system in the US is controlled by the ever powerful teachers union, where most members are extreme left leaning liberals. Because of that, the education system is shaping our children/students into young people that are going to be easily swayed, lazy, dependent, and just where they want them...controlled! We are in a downhill slide and will never recoup as long as we allow that to continue.

PS: And NO, it will not get better because of the recent election outcome
 
A lot of people are asking themselves why they are going to undergo 4 years of college and end up with an enormous amount of debt when they can go into a trade union and end up making more money than they would with the four year degree.

@Peter44, please keep the politics out of this. What you posted is a bunch of bullshit plain and simple.
I worked 2 jobs in college and have done some moonlighting jobs here and there when I first started working to make extra money.
I have a master's degree from those very same "liberal" colleges you spurn in your diarrhea filled diatribe.
I own my own home that is paid for and was paid off early.

I am independent, and very opinionated, and I speak my mind freely.
I am not lazy and I am not dependent on anyone and most of all, NO ONE controls how I think or how I act.

I work with over 50 of the same sort of people that are all educated at those colleges and none of them are as you describe.

So frankly, you can take that crap and shove it.
 
where most members are extreme left leaning liberals. Because of that, the education system is shaping our children/students into young people that are going to be easily swayed, lazy, dependent, and just where they want them...controlled!
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I find this statement highly problematic and offensive. @Peter44 please include some data or evidence of this claim.
 
I will not battle with you about this...that would be a waste of time. I could supply convincing evidence and you would not believe it anyway. Our political and education systems are broken, badly! If you don't see that, then I am without words. We will just agree to disagree.
 
Peter44 said:
I will not battle with you about this...that would be a waste of time. I could supply convincing evidence and you would not believe it anyway. Our political and education systems are broken, badly! If you don't see that, then I am without words. We will just agree to disagree.
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I actually agree with you that our political and education systems are broken.

How do you know that I would not believe convincing evidence? I always believe convincing evidence.
 
Bonsai Nut said:
(1) You don't have to go to college to be successful.
Click to expand...
In many fields this is true.
Bonsai Nut said:
(2) There is something broken with the system when I hear about people being in debt $500,000 for a master's degree in English, when there is no way they will be able to get a job with that degree that can pay off the mountain of debt. This is not dumping on English majors... it is just a fact that there doesn't seem to be a correlation between the cost of the education and the market demand for the degree.
Click to expand...
Don't confuse the cost of education with the amount of debt accumulated. Student loans are available for expenses far beyond the cost of tuition and books, and if people take these additional available funds that's a choice they have made. I did my undergrad at a private college and was aggressive in paying down my minimal student loans. I did my masters at a state university and paid cash for it.
Bonsai Nut said:
(3) We need to do a much better job creating skilled training programs - apprenticeships, technical and professional training, etc - for people who don't go to college.
Click to expand...
True. I think that IT is one area where the non collegiate path is well established and successful in the US.
 
College is for job skills?

:::looking over my shoulder at my college credits:::

:::looking down at my current work:::

Huh.

Granted, it wasnt career path stuff toward a certification. I don't necessarily regret it. Knowledge can imbue wisdom. Just gotta look out for the commies in the humanities.
 
Why not fix what is most definitely broke instead of arguing about the fact that it's broke?

I think children should start their first year of school between 4 and 6 depending on their level of intelligence and learning ability.

Then you will at least have a more similar group of minds to teach to.

My daughter has it the worst, being the very oldest in her class, and another year ahead in mind, she is 2 years ahead of her class.

Parents suck.

Sorce
 
They speak of this not being a Democracy anymore. Since it's controlled by Je...I mean, corporations.

It's only half true. The public school system that leads to college debt and meaningless work in an unchosen field is the half controlled by corporations. Everyone can escape this.

They can escape because this still is a democracy. You just have to take freaking responsibility and .....start your own business and make shit happen.

Trump Rules!

But none of that shit effects me, ever. Maybe the news makes you believe it effects you....but it doesn't. It can't.

USA...USA....

Sorce
 
sorce said:
Why not fix what is most definitely broke instead of arguing about the fact that it's broke?

I think children should start their first year of school between 4 and 6 depending on their level of intelligence and learning ability.

Then you will at least have a more similar group of minds to teach to.

My daughter has it the worst, being the very oldest in her class, and another year ahead in mind, she is 2 years ahead of her class.

Parents suck.

Sorce
Click to expand...

I disagree. Maybe like 7 for structure we are familiar with. If that is your thing.

Corona schooling taught me that kids learn from what was previously called homework. The school day itself appears to be very inefficient.

Just for the helluvit I bumped my son ahead 2 grade levels in math, cuz why not try? We are home. Improvise. He is handling it fine and there is no stress about scheduling. No baffling common core explanations. Just do it.

Parents should also delete the idea of kids being irresponsible degenerates between ages 13 and 22. Have adult expectations early.
 
I took the advice in this thread and didnt go to college. I went into the trades. I got hurt in my 30's and now I have a mortgage and very little marketable job skills. The same would not be true if I had used my mind and not my body for work. I have a sneaking suspicion 80%+ of the "college is not needed" crowd work desk jobs. It's unrealistic to think you can do physical labor into retirement. It's short sighted advice.
 
Peter44 said:
Some of you may not like to hear the truth, but the education system in the US is controlled by the ever powerful teachers union, where most members are extreme left leaning liberals. Because of that, the education system is shaping our children/students into young people that are going to be easily swayed, lazy, dependent, and just where they want them...controlled! We are in a downhill slide and will never recoup as long as we allow that to continue.

PS: And NO, it will not get better because of the recent election outcome
Click to expand...
That probably why the least educated states are in the south? Just keep people stupid, poor, and believing whatever Fox news tells them 😂😂
 
Mr GeaRbOx said:
I took the advice in this thread and didnt go to college. I went into the trades. I got hurt in my 30's and now I have a mortgage and very little marketable job skills. The same would not be true if I had used my mind and not my body for work. I have a sneaking suspicion 80%+ of the "college is not needed" crowd work desk jobs. It's unrealistic to think you can do physical labor into retirement. It's short sighted advice.
Click to expand...

College is not neccesarily job skills though.

Trades arent necessarily knuckle busting death traps.

Getting good at something may not require either.
 
A. Gorilla said:
College is not neccesarily job skills though.

Trades arent necessarily knuckle busting death traps.
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yes yes. you can hang on technicalities and exceptions.... or you can accept the data.

The fact is for the vast majority of people, those things are true. (thats why theres a direct correlation between education and income)
I'll stick with large data sets and overall trends and not hang my hat on exceptions and technicalities. something something facts not caring about my feelings, right?

It's pretty clear there aren't many people who have actually had to look for a job, or change careers recently. In 2020 America, If you don't want to make $12/hr and be on public assistance, you're pretty much going to need a degree.
 
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