Euonymus - multiple flushes

[Vali]

About a month ago I was looking for information on euonymus/spindle tree/burning bush. I found that most of the members who wrote about it claimed that this species grows a single flush per year. However, there are people who claimed otherwise. So I tried it on this poor bastard.
I literally pulled it out of the ground in my garden in april 19th because I wanted to see if I can make something out of this species (not this tree). Barerooted and a little root pruned, I planted it in about 2-6 mm fired expanded clay and perlite. I added some chopped sphagnum moss on the surface for water retention and to keep the substrate in the pot when I water. I placed it in full sun and started feeding it after a day or so with lots of slow release lawn fertilizer (NPK 8-6-7), every 10 days. On may 31st, I decided to go ahead and prune the branches to see if they grow a second flush, as I had nothing to lose but an awfull specimen of a species that my garden has a lot. I was really happy to see the new growth after a week or so.
I decided to start this thread hoping that more of the members here who worked with spindle trees would share their experience so that others could find information easier on how to care for this species. I would really have loved a thread like this when I looked it up. I know there are some who enjoyed multiple flushes on it. I'm sure that there are a lot of things that matter, like substrate, fertiliser, climate, sun exposure, wattering and others that I can't think of right now.
Don't pay attention to the tree, it is really crappy, and it will probably be in Sorce's burn pile so I could graduate eventually, after I finish my experiments on it.

 

[Vali]

This is the only photo I have from when I cut it back. However, the colour of the new growth in the previous pictures should be helpful in distinguishing it fron the old one

 

[coh]

My experience has been that they don't re-flush in response to what might be considered "normal" summer pruning, i.e. cutting back extending shoots. I would think total defoliation would probably cause a second flush - though my concern would be whether the tree would shed finer branches especially if it had a limited root system (in bonsai pot). I'm not willing to do that test on mine so maybe it is something you could experiment with down the line and let us know. I know, it's easy to suggest that on someone else's tree

 

[Forsoothe!]

I'm confused. The "second flush" that I would be looking for would be just smaller leaves on shorter internodes. What I see here is leggy, long internode branches. Is that what other people want?

 

[Vali]

I'm confused. The "second flush" that I would be looking for would be just smaller leaves on shorter internodes. What I see here is leggy, long internode branches. Is that what other people want?

No, I'm aware that everyone wants shorter internodes and smaller leaves. When I said "second flush" I meant the growth after it was pruned during the growing season. I've found lots of statements that this species does not grow anymore if it is pruned during the growing season. Am I confusing the terms? English is a foreign language for me and I am sorry if I misunderstood the meaning of second flush

 

[Vali]

My experience has been that they don't re-flush in response to what might be considered "normal" summer pruning, i.e. cutting back extending shoots. I would think total defoliation would probably cause a second flush - though my concern would be whether the tree would shed finer branches especially if it had a limited root system (in bonsai pot). I'm not willing to do that test on mine so maybe it is something you could experiment with down the line and let us know. I know, it's easy to suggest that on someone else's tree

I don't care much about this tree. It is just for experiments. However, it has lots of room to grow roots in that pot. I could do what you suggested, but I'm afraid it will take a few years to reach that condition. I would first have to repot it in a smaller pot and let it's root sistem fill that up, or wait till it fills this one.

 

[MHBonsai]

I don't care much about this tree. It is just for experiments. However, it has lots of room to grow roots in that pot. I could do what you suggested, but I'm afraid it will take a few years to reach that condition. I would first have to repot it in a smaller pot and let it's root sistem fill that up, or wait till it fills this one.

First off - thanks for doing this! Providing real info is what we are all looking for. To me, this looks like a survival response from the tree from hard cutback. Trying to get more leaves out to survive the damage. I would guess that these will respond to a really drastic chop to stay alive, but how long can it keep that up?

Below is my post from another thread with my experience. On a healthy tree, with spring trimming, this has been my experience: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/advise-on-a-collected-burning-bush.43944/

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Check this branch. Early spring this spot was two opposite buds that grew at the same time. I let them extend out a few internodes, then I pruned the left-hand side. Red circle. You can see it immediately stopped growth, and it set new red buds, ready for next year. The will not grow again until next spring. The other side, blue, I want to thicken and I let it run. It is still extending and getting thicker. When it is the thickness I want, I will cut it off to limit the growth for this year.



Here’s another one. These are super predictable in my experience. This fork is at the top of the tree and I don’t want it to thicken much so I pruned them both early spring. Same deal, I let the right one run longer than the other to make the branches more interesting.



Next year all of those red buds will push new branches out, and I will continue ramifying these.

View attachment 305518

 

[Vali]

@MHBonsai, I've went through that thread a few times, I've noticed your tree didn't respond to pruning like mine did. I'm really curious how you treat it, maybe we'll see what makes them act differently. I mean what substrate do you use, fertilizing and water schedule and other things like this.
This is exactly what I am expecting from this thread. Sharing different experiences and, why not, opinions so that we and others could learn more.

 

[MHBonsai]

@MHBonsai, I've went through that thread a few times, I've noticed your tree didn't respond to pruning like mine did. I'm really curious how you treat it, maybe we'll see what makes them act differently. I mean what substrate do you use, fertilizing and water schedule and other things like this.
This is exactly what I am expecting from this thread. Sharing different experiences and, why not, opinions so that we and others could learn more.

I'll make a thread about my tree this fall - basically it was a landscape bush that I chopped in the ground first year. Let it recover for a year, then hard collected it the following spring while it was pushing buds. Since then it has been in ramification mode.

It's in akadama/lava/pumice with a handful of pine bark thrown in. I fertilize with a mix of slow release and chemical fertilizer - from March to November. (we have a long growing season)

For what it's worth, I have not pruned it since collecting hard enough to get it to shift into 'survival mode'. That may be the difference.

 

[cbroad]

I've noticed your tree didn't respond to pruning like mine

Are you sure what you have is euonymus alatus, and not euonymus europaeus? That could be why you aren't seeing the same responses as MHBonsai.

That's the problem with common names, we call both species spindle tree. If you're reading info about burning bush and it's from the U.S., they're talking about alatus.

Landscape alatus push multiple flushes a season after pruning, but probably not ones confined to a container. That is why people treat them as single flush trees for bonsai.

 

[Vali]

Are you sure what you have is euonymus alatus, and not euonymus europaeus? That could be why you aren't seeing the same responses as MHBonsai.

I was, in fact, told it was europaeus. I tried to find information regarding the differences between the two types of euonymus, but couldn't find anything usefull. I looked it up in both english and romanian. They both look alike

 

[leatherback]

I am growing E Europaeus. This weekend I trimmed back the third flush for the year.

 

[Vali]

I am growing E Europaeus. This weekend I trimmed back the third flush for the year.

Do you get shorter internodes? Maybe you can tell us a bit about you substrate and feeding/watering regime

 

[Vali]

@coh, do you have the alatus or the europaeus?

 

[Shibui]

Common names can be misleading. It appears there are around 130 different Euonymus species. E. alatus is from Asia but there are some native to US too and all referred to as spindle or burning bushes..
We have some naturalised Euonymus growing along roadsides here. When I tried to work out what species it came down to the colour of the flowers as an indicator. Pretty sure the ones here are E. europaeus but we also grow E. alatus 'compacta' in the garden

 

[leatherback]

Do you get shorter internodes?

Dunno. Maybe 1 cm long, 2/5th of an inch?

Maybe you can tell us a bit about you substrate and feeding/watering regime

Must be my substrate. I do not use akadama.

Characteristics of good bonsai substrate - Growing Bonsai

When growing bonsai, there are few subjects that are more controversial than substrates. To some the concept of not using the Japanese substrates is near blasphemy. Everything that is used …

www.growingbonsai.net

Watering and fertilizer: A lot.
Once the plant starts to droop during the day; basically, when the pot it it in does not support the growth anymore, I cut back, typically leaving one new node, or reducing the branch when it gets to dense. Normally I can do this till then end of june and get a new flush. Some years that is 2, some 3 or 4. I keep telling myself one year I have 5.

 

[leatherback]

This tree; Picture on first of june with the flush showing that I just cut off again:

 

[Vali]

Thanks for all the useful details, @leatherback. I remember I saw some of your posts in other threads mentioning you have multiple flushes.

 

[Balbs]

Common names can be misleading. It appears there are around 130 different Euonymus species. E. alatus is from Asia but there are some native to US too and all referred to as spindle or burning bushes..
We have some naturalised Euonymus growing along roadsides here. When I tried to work out what species it came down to the colour of the flowers as an indicator. Pretty sure the ones here are E. europaeus but we also grow E. alatus 'compacta' in the garden

Does anybody know which species grows everywhere (now invasive) in the central Massachusetts area?

 

[coh]

@coh, do you have the alatus or the europaeus?

Alatus, most likely the "compactus" (or whatever) cultivar.

Just to be clear, I've never cut it back really hard during the growing season. I've done the major structural pruning in early spring and during the growing season I only trim back shoots that extend too far, or that I don't want to thicken, etc. Under those conditions it does not push multiple flushes during the growing season. I suspect it would do so if I cut back harder or defoliated, but since I've always heard that's not a good idea I haven't tried it.

I do have a couple other euonymus in my growing bed including a few europaeus but they haven't been cut back during the summer, as they're in the trunk building stage.