Emergency summer repot?...Oil Dri mess

[Terrapinflyer]

Hi all,

I used some Oil Dri in my mix for a few trees in nursery pots this spring. Though I did a (too) brief test with freeze/thaw cycles which looked okay, this stuff has turned to a horrid clay mess in pots which have never even frozen yet! This was a hard lesson learned. I found a Turface dealer not too far away that sells All-Sport, which I am told is the same product as MVP.

1) Is this Turface acceptaple?

2) Do I get the trees out of this sludge and into something better ASAP or wait until fall or even next spring? I obviously wouldn't do any root work, other than removing the clay.

Thanks,

Michael

 

[Poink88]

I obviously wouldn't do any root work, other than removing the clay.

Welcome to B-Nut!

Not sure how you can remove the clay w/o root work. I know I cannot do that. If the tree is not deteriorating...I'd say wait 'till spring.

Re: Turface, I use MVP and have no experience with All-Sport but it should be fine. One thing I'll advise you is not to use it 100%. Preferably no more than 50% of your mix. I had problems with it becoming water repellant when it dried completely (maybe due to weekend vacations) on my mostly Turface mix.

Good luck!

 

[coh]

First off, turface all sport is fine - it's what I'm able to get and have been using for a couple of years.

Second...all "oil-dri" is not created equal. I have two kinds - one is called "oil-dri" and I think I got it from WalMart. When I tested with water it softened very quickly, so I would never use it for plants. There is another product called "Floor-Dry" that you can get from NAPA. That stuff seems to be harder and holds up better to moisture and freezing, at least in my preliminary tests. I haven't used it for plants and probably won't, unless turface suddenly becomes unavailable. Turface is the hardest of the three and holds up best to moisture and freezing.

I agree with the suggestion to not use 100% turface (or floor-dry, or anything).

As for repotting - what kinds of trees are we talking about? Nursery trees being grown out, finished bonsai in bonsai pots, what species? Are they looking healthy or stressed? I'll pretty much always err on the side of repotting if the tree looks to be going downhill, but if they seem healthy I might choose to just be careful with the water until next spring.

Chris

 

[Terrapinflyer]

Thanks for the welcome!

I guess "root pruning" would have been more accurate. The roots, indeed, would need to be disturbed somewhat.

There's a young boxwood and a juniper that seem to be thriving in the stuff...for now. I also started some 1gal pots with seedlings of JBP and some kind of locust I sprouted this spring. I will keep a close eye on their health for now. The seedlings were started in peat pots which I slipped into the 1gal pots. I may take a look at those--if the roots haven't moved much beyond the peat pots I may be able to slip them into a better mix.

I worry that after a Massachusetts winter I will have cement in the other pots next spring.

Oil Dri has is fans; I am not one.

Michael

 

[Terrapinflyer]

As for repotting - what kinds of trees are we talking about? Nursery trees being grown out, finished bonsai in bonsai pots, what species? Are they looking healthy or stressed? I'll pretty much always err on the side of repotting if the tree looks to be going downhill, but if they seem healthy I might choose to just be careful with the water until next spring.

Chris[/QUOTE]

Thanks.

These are all being grown out: boxwood, juni squamata, unknown japanese maple air layer, JBP seedlings and some seedlings of an unknown tree, most likely a locust. I luckily have not used the Oil Dri on any material that is a little more advanced.

Can I ask you to clarify your last sentence? I like to think I am always careful with watering, but we did have about the wettest June here in memory. I had nowhere put these plants under cover. I have a covered porch where I hid my more finished trees in the worst of the rain, but they are all in good, well-draining (0% Oil Dri) soil anyway.

Michael

 

[0soyoung]

Ball and burlap nursery stock is usually in a sticky, dense clay 'soil', yet B&B stock will do fine when planted so that roots on the surface of this muck can grow into decent soil. Extrapolating to your case suggests you do one of two things instead of leaving things be:

1. slip your plants into larger pots filed with good soil
2. lift your plants, soak the root ball, and then gently work out some, if not all, of your oil dry gunk

Lastly, take note that many plants and trees, in particular, can be transplanted/repotted in Aug/Sep, so you may want to sit on your thumbs until late summer. Azaleas, junipers, and roses, for example, do well with Aug/Sep repotting. Further some species such as Mugo pines are best repotted in summer to late summer (Aug/Sep) instead of spring.

 

[xray360]

I use oil dri as well and It's never turned to mush. Did you use the premium absorbent one?



The most I use is 50% in a mix.

 

[coh]

Can I ask you to clarify your last sentence? I like to think I am always careful with watering, but we did have about the wettest June here in memory. I had nowhere put these plants under cover. I have a covered porch where I hid my more finished trees in the worst of the rain, but they are all in good, well-draining (0% Oil Dri) soil anyway.

Michael

Not really...just make sure they need water, and probably keep them protected if you get several days of rain. The more finished trees in good soil can probably stand to be out in the rain more than the ones in the "gunk".

Can you tell us what type of "oil-dri" you got, and from where? My suggestion to anyone using these types of products is to test a sample (soak in water, then freeze if it holds up to the water) before planting. These are not made to be used as soil components, they are really made for a single use spill clean up, and I've seen comments that the quality can vary from one batch to the next. Turface, on the other hand, is specifically made as a soil amendment and seems to be pretty consistent.

Chris

 

[coh]

I use oil dri as well and It's never turned to mush. Did you use the premium absorbent one?

View attachment 37576

The most I use is 50% in a mix.

Where do you get this?

Chris

 

[Terrapinflyer]

Good points, Osoyoung.

This was the same package as you show, xray. Mileage varies, as they say.

 

[coppice]

I never met a clay product that didn't let me down.

Coarse sand, or heat expanded shale (from a cinder-block mill) or granite grit (from a gravel mill or the livestock feed store), also crushed lava rock (which can need substantial reworking). Has always done right by my trees.

 

[xray360]

Where do you get this?

Chris

Walmart.

Terrapinflyer, another question did you shift out the fines? Or the big pieces were breaking down too? I will have to keep an eye on my stuff because I did notice the new bags had lighter color clay. The older bags had redish and brown color clay pieces and they have been in my soil for over a year now.

 

[Terrapinflyer]

Yes, I sifted out the fines with window screen. Particle size didn't merit screening out +sizes.

This was very light in color, not quite as white as my pumice. It's been in some cacti since the fall with no problem. I think the very wet spring had a lot to do with the breakdown, but am still disappointed. I had hoped to get a year out of this stuff, at least. The trees look good and the soil does drain, so unless that changes, I will leave it be until spring (and worry in the meantime).

This highlights the danger of varying quality of "off-label" soil components. A *thorough* test of each batch is mandatory.

I was lucky to find a John Deere 10 miles away with Turface at what I think is a reasonable price. If I could find some granite cheap in these parts, I'd be in business. I used to live near an Agway--should have stocked up.


Michael

 

[Dav4]

Pumice and lava are much better components to add then granite. Do a search for Dry Stall (pumice)...it may be hard to find up there but definitely worth looking for. I know New England Bonsai carried bags of lava the last time I was there...give them a call.

 

[Jason_mazzy]

Go to napa part# 8822 pure DE. I have some stuff four years old still not broken down.

 

[Terrapinflyer]

I have a little pumice, but haven't found it as that brand in this part of the state yet. I'll definitely check NEBG for the lava. I've got a Turface supplier now. No scrambling next spring for a change.

I'm wary of the Napa product, though I have seen it recommended by many. This whole thing caused a lot of worry I don't need. I know DE is not clay, and I remember looking for a Napa last spring and ended up going for Oil Dri instead. Things probably would have worked out better had I made the trip.

 

[KennedyMarx]

I tried oil dry last year and just getting it wet seemed to make the pieces start breaking apart. The NAPA Floor Dry is diatomaceous earth and won't break down. You can break the pieces apart between your fingernails, but it takes some effort. Its harder than the akadama I have seen, but a little softer than calcined clay.

 

[Jason_mazzy]

Just make sure you get the right part number 8822. They also sell a few other oils dry and floor sweeps and some of those are soft and turn to sludge

 

[marc206]

Hi all,

I used some Oil Dri in my mix for a few trees in nursery pots this spring. Though I did a (too) brief test with freeze/thaw cycles which looked okay, this stuff has turned to a horrid clay mess in pots which have never even frozen yet! This was a hard lesson learned. I found a Turface dealer not too far away that sells All-Sport, which I am told is the same product as MVP.

1) Is this Turface acceptaple?

2) Do I get the trees out of this sludge and into something better ASAP or wait until fall or even next spring? I obviously wouldn't do any root work, other than removing the clay.

Thanks,

Michael

Did you rinse out the oil DRI before you used it or put the tree in dry?

 

[elliott]

I would not use turface. The porosity of it is too small, so The roots are not able to draw water out as they need it especialy when the temps go up (I got this from Ryan Niel). pumice, Hyuga (Japanese pumice you can order anywhere and have sent to you) or perlite will be much better. mix with lava for airspaces and Akadama for cat ion exchange, and you will have a good all around mix. Wash any pumice product well and sift the fines out all products first.