Emergency air layer advice

[Matt B]

Recently I was scouring the site for information on getting a nursery tamarind tree. As fate would have it, my fiancee has an acquaintance that announced that her husband is going to cut down their tamarind tree that is pushing up their walkway. I have convinced them to give me a few months to air layer off a couple branches as bonsai starters before D day. Even though we are in Florida and the weather is usually nice all year, we are past prime time for air layers. What can I do to improve my chances of a successful layer?

I have air layer pods and a sphagnum moss mixed with some soil and bark fines I'll be using for the project. I'm also using root hormone. Should I prune the branches back above the layers to reduce the moisture demands of the branches, or is it best to leave them intact? Any other suggestions?

 

[BrianBay9]

Do not prune the branches above the layers. Root development depends on photosynthetic products moving down to the layer. The more green above it, but quicker the roots form.

Since tamarind are evergreen, there's no reason you can't start the layer any time you want. If it's chilly the roots won't grow, but on warm days you might get a head start on spring.

 

[Matt B]

Do not prune the branches above the layers. Root development depends on photosynthetic products moving down to the layer. The more green above it, but quicker the roots form.

Since tamarind are evergreen, there's no reason you can't start the layer any time you want. If it's chilly the roots won't grow, but on warm days you might get a head start on spring.

Roger that. Thanks for the advice. The branches I'm layering off are a touch thicker than 1/2 inches in diameter, and have about 3 feet of branches and sub-branches above them. They are a bit leggier than developed trees, so there are maybe 15 or so sub-branches and 150-200 leaf clusters above each layer.

 

[Shibui]

Even if you don't get actual roots before the trees get the chop, the layer technique will produce callus which is more than half of the process. Transfer the pieces as cuttings and cross fingers. I would still expect them to finish the rooting process as cuttings given half reasonable conditions.

 

[Matt B]

Even if you don't get actual roots before the trees get the chop, the layer technique will produce callus which is more than half of the process. Transfer the pieces as cuttings and cross fingers. I would still expect them to finish the rooting process as cuttings given half reasonable conditions.

Really? I haven't worked with tamarind yet, but I know of a very short list of trees that can root as cuttings that thick, and most are ficus. For example, I helped my fiancee's mother severely trim a long-neglected hedge line of dwarf schefflera, where one had mysteriously did and left a hole. For s#its and giggles I took two cuttings as thick as my forearm and jammed them in the bare dirt to fill the hole in the line, fully expecting them to dry up and go to the front of the yard with the rest by the end of the week for trash pickup, and the end of the week came and went three times more before I went to investigate, and those massive cuttings had rooted solid as you please. No cut paste, no fungicide, no rooting soil mix, no root hormone. Just Florida crap sand. I was fairly shocked.

Hopefully these tamarind layers will have that kind of success! Maybe I should go back today and see if I can layer off a three inch trunk.

 

[Cajunrider]

How big is that tamarind tree? In Asia tamarinds as big as 18+" in trunk diameter are still collected and developed as bonsai.


Or big layer taken

 

[Matt B]

How big is that tamarind tree? In Asia tamarinds as big as 18+" in trunk diameter are still collected and developed as bonsai.
View attachment 516780

Or big layer taken

Oh hell no. I don't have a 15 ton tree spade and a swimming pool training pot. That sounds like a $20,000 operation. You'd need industrial equipment to hold it on its side, and a full-sized rake and a full day to clean the roots. A chainsaw would work nicely for root trimming and pruning. Not what I would call a hobbyist's bonsai.

 

[Shibui]

Really? I haven't worked with tamarind yet, but I know of a very short list of trees that can root as cuttings that thick, and most are ficus.

Apologies if you thought I meant take cuttings. That was not the intent.
Put your air layers on but if the time comes and the layers do not have roots or only have very tiny roots do not despair. The layers should have plenty of callus at the cut sites so before they chop the tree out, remove your layers and set those as cuttings.
Both layers and cuttings go through the same steps - wound tries to heal producing callus. Callus is undifferentiated cells that can become bark, wood or roots. With moisture some of the callus will produce roots.
Provided cuttings can get roots before they dehydrate the cutting can survive. Layers are more certain because the tree still provides water so even if roots take months the branch can stay alive.
Producing callus is the hard part for cuttings. After that roots are easy so if your layers have callus they are way ahead of any new cutting and stand a good chance of growing roots to survive.

A few other genera to add to your list of plants that can grow from large cuttings with minimal care: Willow, Mulberry, Poplar, olive

 

[Matt B]

Apologies if you thought I meant take cuttings. That was not the intent.
Put your air layers on but if the time comes and the layers do not have roots or only have very tiny roots do not despair. The layers should have plenty of callus at the cut sites so before they chop the tree out, remove your layers and set those as cuttings.
Both layers and cuttings go through the same steps - wound tries to heal producing callus. Callus is undifferentiated cells that can become bark, wood or roots. With moisture some of the callus will produce roots.
Provided cuttings can get roots before they dehydrate the cutting can survive. Layers are more certain because the tree still provides water so even if roots take months the branch can stay alive.
Producing callus is the hard part for cuttings. After that roots are easy so if your layers have callus they are way ahead of any new cutting and stand a good chance of growing roots to survive.

A few other genera to add to your list of plants that can grow from large cuttings with minimal care: Willow, Mulberry, Poplar, olive

I never knew the actual rooting process from cuttings or layering.I just knew the observational part (cut bark. Wrap moss. Wait. Root come out!) thanks for the explanation! So callus is the equivalent of human stem cells, I suppose. If D day comes before roots are visible, I suppose the best thing would be to unfasten the ball. Container and transfer the moss and cutting straight to a pot.

I'd add olive to the list but I harvested 10 cuttings from a 1000 year old tree in Greece last year while on a cruise, kept the stem bottoms in damp paper towel and bark, and trued to root 4 in moss, 3 in soil and 3 in water, and not a single one grew not 1 solitary root. That was disheartening.

 

[Shibui]

I'd add olive to the list but I harvested 10 cuttings from a 1000 year old tree in Greece last year while on a cruise, kept the stem bottoms in damp paper towel and bark, and trued to root 4 in moss, 3 in soil and 3 in water, and not a single one grew not 1 solitary root. That was disheartening.

Some olive cultivars root very easy but I found that Kalamata is known for being very difficult to strike so strikeability can vary depending on individual trees or cultivars. Maybe you chose one of the hard to root types?

 

[Matt B]

Some olive cultivars root very easy but I found that Kalamata is known for being very difficult to strike so strikeability can vary depending on individual trees or cultivars. Maybe you chose one of the hard to root types?

I actually took the cuttings from the Loufu museum, in Cyprus. I don't know which cultivar it was, but it certainly didn't strike. More like strike out. I was super disappointed, it would have been epic to have a cutting rooted from a thousand year old tree. I should have taken a couple from the Jordan River in Israel and a few from Greece to round it out, but I had read that olive was a sure thing. Maybe I need to find someone local who can take cuttings and root them and send me the rooted trees.

 

[czaczaja]

I would take cuttings of all ages and sizes to make sure best possible outcome for cutting/layering.
Worth watching this video (I know its a fig but you may as well do an experiment on your tamarind, got nothing to lose )

 

[Matt B]

I would take cuttings of all ages and sizes to make sure best possible outcome for cutting/layering.
Worth watching this video (I know its a fig but you may as well do an experiment on your tamarind, got nothing to lose )

Did you forget the link?

 

[czaczaja]

Did you forget the link?

Click on the part where it says 'this video'

 

[Cajunrider]

Oh hell no. I don't have a 15 ton tree spade and a swimming pool training pot. That sounds like a $20,000 operation. You'd need industrial equipment to hold it on its side, and a full-sized rake and a full day to clean the roots. A chainsaw would work nicely for root trimming and pruning. Not what I would call a hobbyist's bonsai.

But in that video, he was doing big tamarind air layer just as you wish to do. By the way he used 70% coco coir 30% sand by volume as medium for his air layers.

 

[Matt B]

Click on the part where it says 'this video'

Oh, look at me! I can internet good! For some reason the color of the lettering displays in a very similar color to the rest on my phone, and I didn't see it.

 

[Matt B]

But in that video, he was doing big tamarind air layer just as you wish to do. By the way he used 70% coco coir 30% sand by volume as medium for his air layers.

Holy crap. I don't know if it's just me, but in Asia and India you see these people doing stuff supersized like that, and for some strange reason, it works. I watched a dude who was dressed way to nice to be digging in the dirt, who seemed to be India or possibly Bangladesh air layering things wit a mud ball of crusty rocks and sand he scraped off the top inch of the dirt on the side of the road and trash bags. I couldn't understand the language, but I was thinking "Noooo, don't do it!" and sure enough, the next video is his madly successful layer exploding with roots.

Here, we debate endlessly over the best mixtures to use for bonsai, and they are growing them in bare sand packed so tight that it looks like concrete.

 

[Cajunrider]

Holy crap. I don't know if it's just me, but in Asia and India you see these people doing stuff supersized like that, and for some strange reason, it works. I watched a dude who was dressed way to nice to be digging in the dirt, who seemed to be India or possibly Bangladesh air layering things wit a mud ball of crusty rocks and sand he scraped off the top inch of the dirt on the side of the road and trash bags. I couldn't understand the language, but I was thinking "Noooo, don't do it!" and sure enough, the next video is his madly successful layer exploding with roots.

Here, we debate endlessly over the best mixtures to use for bonsai, and they are growing them in bare sand packed so tight that it looks like concrete.

It shows how far removed many of us are from horticultural practices. When growing things is a part of your survival, you know what to do.

The same thing extend to all other activities. I remember asking my mom for a bike to go to school and my mom gave me some money but it was not close to being enough so I bought the frame and parts and put it together myself at 11 year old. How many of us can put together a classic bike wheel from a loose rim, a hub, spokes, and spoke nuts and keep it round and true as an adult? Human are like that, we rise when there is a true need.

 

[Matt B]

It shows how far removed many of us are from horticultural practices. When growing things is a part of your survival, you know what to do.

The same thing extend to all other activities. I remember asking my mom for a bike to go to school and my mom gave me some money but it was not close to being enough so I bought the frame and parts and put it together myself at 11 year old. How many of us can put together a classic bike wheel from a loose rim, a hub, spokes, and spoke nuts and keep it round and true as an adult? Human are like that, we rise when there is a true need.

Apparently, the trees rise when required also, because what they do there as a part of normal care is the most effective way to kill trees here.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I actually took the cuttings from the Loufu museum, in Cyprus. I don't know which cultivar it was, but it certainly didn't strike. More like strike out. I was super disappointed, it would have been epic to have a cutting rooted from a thousand year old tree. I should have taken a couple from the Jordan River in Israel and a few from Greece to round it out, but I had read that olive was a sure thing. Maybe I need to find someone local who can take cuttings and root them and send me the rooted trees.

The age of the source tree may have been part of the problem. A one thousand year old tree may very well have lost some of the cell's ability to regenerate. Next time try source material that is less than 100 years old. Trees with advanced age may not be able to root like a cutting from a young tree.

Second, shame on you for vandalizing an ancient museum tree. If everyone took cuttings from that 1000 year old tree it would have died long ago. It is not appropriate collecting cuttings from ancient specimen trees.

It is okay to stop at a gift shop or a nearby nursery and buy material propagated legally. Also bringing plant material into USA from foreign countries technically requires USDA Phytosanitary certificates. Seeds usually can cross borders without papers. But live plant material needs Phytosanitary certificates. You got lucky you did not get searched and penalized. Admittedly for first time offender tourists they usually just take the plants and destroy them, but then a record is created. Repeat offences are treated more seriously.

For my "orchid souvenirs" from a trip to Malaysia I took back in 1994, I paid a nursery to hold them for 2 months, and then after I was able to send them my import permits, and they had time to get their export permits together, only then did they ship. The paperwork to keep it legal cost around $200 for about $150 worth of orchids.

Just about any plant you can imagine is available in USA from specialty vendors. These days there is no justification for smuggling souvenirs in from over seas. Take good pictures, bring home memories, then pick up a USA nursery sourced olive to commemorate your trip.