Elm Thread Graft question

[AaronThomas]

So last April I started a thread graft on a small elm....
Lots of growth and thickening of the graft however about a week a go or so I snipped the scion. Today I noticed the leaves are a bit wilty.
Did it fail or did i cut too soon?
The graft is super long... should I have cut it?
Thanks
APRIL 2019

March 2020

 

[sorce]

How big was the hole?

Looks like the hole was too big.

Sorce

 

[AaronThomas]

The hole was nearly the same diameter as the scion.
The thread has grown approximately five times the size.

 

[AaronThomas]

No other thoughts?

 

[Hartinez]

Have the leaves wilted or dried up more? I tried and failed a thread graft on an elm 2 yrs ago. Pretty sure I just cut too soon. I’d say if it dries up it just didn’t stay long enough.

 

[AaronThomas]

Yeah dried up a bit more today I noticed...
I figured since it’s been a year and the thread got so thick I was good to go.....

 

[AaronThomas]

Think the fact the leaves didn’t fall off immediately after the cut means perhaps it grafted just a bit. This is the begin of our growing season so maybe there is hope that it will survive.... but I’m expecting some dieback from end of the cut scion

 

[Hartinez]

I’d leave it for a bit. Scratch the branch near the base. Is it still green? Is the exit side larger than the entry side? That’s my understanding is an indication the graft has taken.

 

[AaronThomas]

I’d leave it for a bit.

Agreed.... I put it in the shade to sit for a while. Scratch test is green.
The exit side is much larger then the entry side.... both sides have grown larger than the hole I drilled.
Exit is on left....

 

[sorce]

Agreed.... I put it in the shade to sit for a while. Scratch test is green.
The exit side is much larger then the entry side.... both sides have grown larger than the hole I drilled.
Exit is on left....
View attachment 288831

Ohok that shows it better. The other looked like they were the same size.

Doesn't seem much contact was made though huh? Internally?

Did you scratch the Scion?

How much life is above that there?
Seems eh...

Sorce

 

[AaronThomas]

Ohok that shows it better.

Sorry... first pic not great.

Internally?

Not sure how to tell really....Basing all my presumptions on how large the scion has grown. I’m sure I just cut it too early. But from what I have read all the signs were there that it was ready...

Did you scratch the Scion?

Yep... both sides green.
That being said… I kept a Elm branch alive in a bucket of water with super green leaves for about two months before it shit the bed.

How much life is above that there?

This is one of a handful of elms that I have that tend to be a late bloomers… Lots of buds but not a lot of popping just yet.

 

[sorce]

Lol...I was like ....who asked...?

Did you scratch the Scion?

Oh...me......

But I meant, before you inserted it....for cambium contact. ?

Also, not buds .. life.

But like, not "punky wood" life.

It seams...get it...seams like it just pushed dead soft wood away, rather than grow into/fuse with, living wood.

Sorce

 

[AaronThomas]

@sorce
Tree is alive.... and wood used for the graft is healthy.

As far as scratching the scion.... this is the first I have heard to do this. Been looking at at online articles and haven’t seen this being done. Not saying it not a thing just can’t find the step... hmmmm. Makes sense but think with the small new shoot of the elm I would have killed the scion?

Perhaps I cut the donor branch too short too soon?
or it’s just dead.

 

[sorce]

As far as scratching the scion.... this is the first I have heard to do this

I recall @Owen Reich talking about being introduced to NOT scratching it in Japan.

So he must have before I guess.

I think it was a BAOJ video.

Sorce

 

[AaronThomas]

I recall

Interesting... it totally makes sense in my mind. Still looking through stuff....

 

[Shibui]

The 'out' side does not look like it has good contact with the trunk yet. I can see a distinct line round the edge between branch and trunk. I like to wait until there is a bit of flare between the 2 so I know there is good contact. If in doubt I cut the 'in' side a bit at a time - remove bark from half the circumference - half ringbark to frighten the branch into making better contact with the trunk. Then fully sever the donor a few months later. Seems to work here.

 

[AaronThomas]

Then fully sever the donor a few months later

Thanks.... I see where you mean. I'm sure I cut too early. That being said... even though the leaves have gone crips... the branch is still green. Maybe there is hope.... If not... waste of a year but a good education.

 

[sorce]

a good education.

Certainly not a waste then!

It's damn interesting.

How lignified was that scion?

Sorce

 

[AaronThomas]

How lignified was that scion?

It was still green... just before it started to harden off.

 

[AaronThomas]

It's damn interesting.

... Agreed!!!