Dwarf Hinoki Cypress Browning

[Arbol]

Hey all,

Hope everyone is doing well. I had a couple questions about this dwarf Hinoki Cypress I just got. Little backstory: I ordered it online from Meehan’s Miniatures (highly recommend) and was delivered today (a week after shipping). I noticed some browning on the tips and read that it could be under watering, overwatering, frost/ wind burn or sun burn. Soil is still relatively moist after the trip and wanted some input from some more knowledgeable folk.

 

[PerryB]

Hey all,

Hope everyone is doing well. I had a couple questions about this dwarf Hinoki Cypress I just got. Little backstory: I ordered it online from Meehan’s Miniatures (highly recommend) and was delivered today (a week after shipping). I noticed some browning on the tips and read that it could be under watering, overwatering, frost/ wind burn or sun burn. Soil is still relatively moist after the trip and wanted some input from some more knowledgeable folk.

Looks absolutely normal to me.
I have a 25 year old full size Hinoki that's about 20 feet tall and this happens in autumn to it.
Also, I have a hinoki forest on a slab, and a single hinoki I a pot. All have the same browning at this time of year.

 

[Japonicus]

Perfectly fine and expect more of this going through Winter.
As hinoki do not back bud on bare wood, keep interior exposed to sunlight
as much as you can. Do not remove interior growth that is desirable.
Not seeing the whole tree in your pics I assume it's a rather small hinoki
that needs to grow out. This requires more of you while it's growing out to
keep it wired in a way that allows light into the interior existing foliage.
Very little branch removal likely during the growing season.
Spring is a good time to begin transitioning to better draining bonsai soil assuming it's in the standard
Meehans potting soil now.

To address your Winter browning, in Spring as it dries out pinch it off or use scissors where necessary.
Much of the brown will be inside of exterior foliage you may be keeping, and may look a little funky till later in the growing season
when green foliage is more dominant. That's when you want to be pinching exterior foliage back (to keep
new generating foliage further back from the new growth tips) if not pruning 1st, then pinching to compact.
During the growing out stage though, the only pruning and pinching is just for
1. development of interior ramification on keeper branches
2. to remove foliage that is shading interior foliage or lower branches.
We want the tree to thicken while growing out, so keep many sacrificial branches and the current apex.
In Spring when you pot the tree up, the more foliage you have, the better the chances of survival from the insult
to the roots, as the foliage collects energy from the Sun.

 

[Arbol]

Perfectly fine and expect more of this going through Winter.
As hinoki do not back bud on bare wood, keep interior exposed to sunlight
as much as you can. Do not remove interior growth that is desirable.
Not seeing the whole tree in your pics I assume it's a rather small hinoki
that needs to grow out. This requires more of you while it's growing out to
keep it wired in a way that allows light into the interior existing foliage.
Very little branch removal likely during the growing season.
Spring is a good time to begin transitioning to better draining bonsai soil assuming it's in the standard
Meehans potting soil now.

To address your Winter browning, in Spring as it dries out pinch it off or use scissors where necessary.
Much of the brown will be inside of exterior foliage you may be keeping, and may look a little funky till later in the growing season
when green foliage is more dominant. That's when you want to be pinching exterior foliage back (to keep
new generating foliage further back from the new growth tips) if not pruning 1st, then pinching to compact.
During the growing out stage though, the only pruning and pinching is just for
1. development of interior ramification on keeper branches
2. to remove foliage that is shading interior foliage or lower branches.
We want the tree to thicken while growing out, so keep many sacrificial branches and the current apex.
In Spring when you pot the tree up, the more foliage you have, the better the chances of survival from the insult
to the roots, as the foliage collects energy from the Sun.

This is awesome information. Thank you. You mentioned “start transitioning to bonsai soil” are cypress like junipers in the sense that I’ll want to keep 1/3-1/5 of its original soil as I wean it towards bonsai soil?

 

[Japonicus]

This is awesome information. Thank you. You mentioned “start transitioning to bonsai soil” are cypress like junipers in the sense that I’ll want to keep 1/3-1/5 of its original soil as I wean it towards bonsai soil?

Yes sounds like a good plan.
The younger the tree the more aggressive you can be with soil removal.
Start with 50% horizontal removal then begin raking the roots out but not tearing them. A root hook is great for this alternating with a root rake.
If you still have a thick shin you can begin making a cone shape cavity into the shin directly under the trunk.
In fact, try not to remove too much exterior roots so you can cone out some of the shin. Only remove tap root and overly thick roots if any. Save the finer roots for final clean up concerning your suggested plan to keep 1/3 of the roots. Remove any black roots that you can pull out by your fingers until you find in tact healthy roots then trim a little bit into the healthy portion.
This is done 1st after raking out the roots. Secure with wire, the root system to the pot through the drainage holes.
Here's a good video description of how to pinch back the frawns. Of course this is not being grown out, but a finished piece.

Here are some pics from my last repot on this Golden variety 3 years ago, well 4 yrs come May.

 

[Arbol]

Yes sounds like a good plan.
The younger the tree the more aggressive you can be with soil removal.
Start with 50% horizontal removal then begin raking the roots out but not tearing them. A root hook is great for this alternating with a root rake.
If you still have a thick shin you can begin making a cone shape cavity into the shin directly under the trunk.
In fact, try not to remove too much exterior roots so you can cone out some of the shin. Only remove tap root and overly thick roots if any. Save the finer roots for final clean up concerning your suggested plan to keep 1/3 of the roots. Remove any black roots that you can pull out by your fingers until you find in tact healthy roots then trim a little bit into the healthy portion.
This is done 1st after raking out the roots. Secure with wire, the root system to the pot through the drainage holes.
Here's a good video description of how to pinch back the frawns. Of course this is not being grown out, but a finished piece.

Here are some pics from my last repot on this Golden variety 3 years ago, well 4 yrs come May.

View attachment 520681 View attachment 520682 View attachment 520683 View attachment 520684 View attachment 520685View attachment 520686

So trimming back roots during a spring repot won't delay any growth of the trunk since its still in development? And for any pruning would I need to wait a season or a year from the repot?
Thanks again and thats quite the beautiful tree you have!

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Good question. This depends on whether or not the tree is planned to stay small, by potting it into a small bonsai pot. Then it will stay relatively small compared to other options.

If the goal is to grow the tree out, then pot in slightly oversized, deeper pot, and do not cut back the roots. Then uppot every 2-3 years as the tree grows out.

If one really wants to grow out the trree consider ground growing for 4-6 years In a suitable location… each of these methods have the downside of taking time.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Japonicus]

The only thing I don't like about ground growing is you aren't able to attend to the foliage good enough without digging it up every other year.
This is more of an issue with such a species that needs interior sunlight more than most. Also if the tree has a possible front facing away in a location that you can't access such as a fence or foundation, it will suffer without lifting and rotating.
That's 99% of my ground grown projects. Even that 1% in the open yard is difficult to maintain and easy target for dogs.
I would still do a good amount of root removal initially. Keeping foliage relatively full will drive new root development. I don't have any hinoki in pond baskets or Anderson flats and cannot comment on this type of grow out environment for them. Pine, juniper and hemlock yes. This is generally considered a good grow out pot. Hinoki are a bit of a thirsty tree. They do not like a lot of wind especially in Winter. Probably why I don't use open pot types like pond baskets for my hinoki. Doesn't mean they will do poorly in them, I just have no experience with hinoki in them. No matter your root removal amount, thick roots need to be cut as short as you can within reason.

 

[Japonicus]

And for any pruning would I need to wait a season or a year from the repot?

Only remove or shorten branches that are shading good interior foliage that you should keep for the desired structure. This can be done a few months after recovery noted by better water uptake and continued foliage growth.
You may wire any time now through February as never will the tree be more supple than it is now.

Are you comfortable with wiring and bending the trunk?
Can you post pics of the hinoki as a whole and the soil and trunk?

 

[Arbol]

Only remove or shorten branches that are shading good interior foliage that you should keep for the desired structure. This can be done a few months after recovery noted by better water uptake and continued foliage growth.
You may wire any time now through February as never will the tree be more supple than it is now.

Are you comfortable with wiring and bending the trunk?
Can you post pics of the hinoki as a whole and the soil and trunk?

My plan for this tree is to get some trunk thickness but unfortunately do not have the option of planting it in the ground. I do feel comfortable with wiring and bending the trunk I’m just not quite sure the route I want to take with the movement. My plan for the spring will be to up pot it into better draining soil and will do a light root prune like suggested.

Any thoughts on how trunk movement?

 

[Japonicus]

My plan for this tree is to get some trunk thickness but unfortunately do not have the option of planting it in the ground. I do feel comfortable with wiring and bending the trunk I’m just not quite sure the route I want to take with the movement. My plan for the spring will be to up pot it into better draining soil and will do a light root prune like suggested.

Any thoughts on how trunk movement?

This looks like it's in a 2.5"-3" container.
I would simply open the root structure horizontally when you up pot it and not remove any roots,
unless that would make it feel too loose or unstable to wire down. You might just have to up pot without
much disturbance at all. However the size of the trunk vs the container, makes me think the roots will need
SOME work. I mean that's a bigger trunk than I normally see in a 2"-ish container.
That's no issue. Maybe just slice off the bottom mat of roots, spread out a little and wire down as in
the example in the pics I posted of mine earlier, on top of a hill of bonsai soil, then back fill.
Try not to smash the roots when back filling or torquing down the wire too much.
Work new soil in between the roots as much as you can with a chop stick or dull pencil.

Wiring. The right lower fork of the tree is too big for a branch but could become the tree with the immediate movement
of the trunk at that point so low down on the trunk.

To do that, I would coil #8 annealed copper wire counterclockwise as you're looking down from the top at ~60º spirals
Rotate the upper portion of the tree counterclockwise and bend left to allow light not to be blocked.
The lowest short shoot in the middle try to save, but not a deal breaker if it rips off while wiring.
It may be too low for a kifu sized tree (9-12"), but for a shohin it would be nice to retain it.
If you do not like that idea which would induce good taper, then keep that branch/trunk as a sacrifice and study other
hinoki bonsai you like and look for a local bonsai club to take your tree to and ask questions.
Don't let anybody talk you into pruning entire trunks at this point.
The one I pictured earlier was in a small pot as such and no bigger than my fist when I bought it maybe 15 yrs ago.
It's never been in any pot bigger than 10.5-11" but was in a deeper pot initially while getting the roots more full.
Keep moss off of the trunk. It stays too wet and will rot the thin flaky bark.

Also, if you don't like the 1st branch scenario for a trunk, wire the main trunk with the #8 wire and bend the trunk trying
to shorten it. So move it left or right carefully as low as it is safe, and then come up a little bit and move it the opposite direction
in scale with the 1st trunk you decide to use as the main if possible. Just don't blame me if you snap the trunk below any forks.
This is where a local club would be helpful. Maybe using raffia to protect such movement. Hope that helps.

 

[Japonicus]

If you don't like the 1st branch for the trunk...(I do), but you have to decide at some point before
this progress to the point that wiring becomes more iffy.
Depending on the pliability, or suppleness of the trunk, the lowest bend may not be possible.
That depends on how well the roots are formed and how recent this was potted up by Meehans too.
The red arc is a good position for thumbs to press with one hand above and one hand below this point
on the opposite side, bending the trunk in the direction of the arc. Coiling wire at 45º is wasteful and has less hold than at 60º when you use the
correct size of wire. Less than 45º is absurd. Copper wire that's not annealed is not for wiring the tree.
I work with aluminum infrequently, and cannot accurately say what mm to use.
I do use it more for tiny branches though and for securing trees to pots.
I have a good link for copper wire if you would like. Or look up Adams bonsai.

It would be nice to have more than one to get a feel of what size trunk will handle how much bend.
Starting young in the trees life is advantageous for this reason. Though that's not the only reason.

 

[Arbol]

View attachment 520780
If you don't like the 1st branch for the trunk...(I do), but you have to decide at some point before
this progress to the point that wiring becomes more iffy.
Depending on the pliability, or suppleness of the trunk, the lowest bend may not be possible.
That depends on how well the roots are formed and how recent this was potted up by Meehans too.
The red arc is a good position for thumbs to press with one hand above and one hand below this point
on the opposite side, bending the trunk in the direction of the arc. Coiling wire at 45º is wasteful and has less hold than at 60º when you use the
correct size of wire. Less than 45º is absurd. Copper wire that's not annealed is not for wiring the tree.
I work with aluminum infrequently, and cannot accurately say what mm to use.
I do use it more for tiny branches though and for securing trees to pots.
I have a good link for copper wire if you would like. Or look up Adams bonsai.

It would be nice to have more than one to get a feel of what size trunk will handle how much bend.
Starting young in the trees life is advantageous for this reason. Though that's not the only reason.

Haha I would never blame you for me snapping trunks. I do like the idea of that lower right branch becoming the trunk. Seems like my local bonsai club meets in January so I’ll be studying Hinokis in the meantime. Thank you for all your advice and help.

 

[Arbol]

@Japonicus

Another question. Where do you buy your Anderson Flats? I’ve seen some on Amazon but they seem a little on the shallow side (2.5-2.75 inches of depth)

 

[Japonicus]

@Japonicus

Another question. Where do you buy your Anderson Flats? I’ve seen some on Amazon but they seem a little on the shallow side (2.5-2.75 inches of depth)

I don't use them, but I do use pond baskets.
However Stuewe is quite the popular website for them on this forum.
Here's a thread to check out

I ordered a variety of Anderson flats and...

This is probably just a "well duh" kind of thing, but I was curious so figured others might be curious as well. After seeing @Bonsai Nut mention it, I went on the Stuewe website and placed an order for a few each of three different Anderson part numbers: 2400B Heavy Duty (Stuewe #AFLAT3), 2405B...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Arbol]

I don't use them, but I do use pond baskets.
However Stuewe is quite the popular website for them on this forum.
Here's a thread to check out

I ordered a variety of Anderson flats and...

This is probably just a "well duh" kind of thing, but I was curious so figured others might be curious as well. After seeing @Bonsai Nut mention it, I went on the Stuewe website and placed an order for a few each of three different Anderson part numbers: 2400B Heavy Duty (Stuewe #AFLAT3), 2405B...

www.bonsainut.com

You’re awesome. Thanks again!