Corkbark black pine, Ondae

[Brian Van Fleet]

Ondae, as in, "Ondae this might be an ok tree...but I don't like it now". In fact, I bought it to get the cultivar, so grafting onto JBP understock can be the ultimate goal, if the foliage reduces. Otherwise it won't be worth the trouble.

The apex died after I twisted it almost off last summer, which really didn't hurt the design any, and it actually shortened the tree, making the trunk relatively thicker.

I applied the guy wire 2-3 years ago to add some trunk movement. Last summer, I cut the wire to see how much it had set, and it sprung back like a catapult. Back down it went, with a heavier wire.

Here are the shots, from front, left, back, right, and back to front, but tilted up about 30 degrees, since its currently pitched pretty far forward.


So, if this ugly duckling was on your bench...how would you make it into a swan?

 

[Poink88]

I might remove the top half if this is mine then buid it from the branches remaining.

 

[cmeg1]

I would use the branchless section to lead into an escape leader and make a new bud on the bottom branch to be a new leader kept dwarf(seems I am doing that with alot of my grafts that I started training to early).Then hopefully be able to cut that strong escape leader off in stages.I would just train the bottom branches as final while the top runs wild and if the bottom branches get too long you could always prune back to a junction and regrow.

 

[Ron Dennis]

I hear the other shoe about to drop! So what have you already done to this little guy? Knowing you it is probably well on its way.

If you truly think this is an ugly duckling, don't fret with it any more. I have a spot it will fit nicely into.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I hear the other shoe about to drop! So what have you already done to this little guy? Knowing you it is probably well on its way.

If you truly think this is an ugly duckling, don't fret with it any more. I have a spot it will fit nicely into.

Nope, these are current photos. But I am headed somewhere.
And, if you want it on your bench, you can save me some trouble and make an offer...;-). For you, I might even deliver it!

 

[Nybonsai12]

Seems like the upper section doesn't belong. Too straight of a section, no?
The bark looks great on this one.

 

[discusmike]

Ten four.use the lower branches for new leadern build from there,thats your only shot at making something nice.

 

[Dav4]

Man, that middle section is horrible. Without either grafting onto the middle section or chopping to the first branch (which is essentially removing 70% of the grafted cultivar's growth), I don't see you being able to use either the existing front or the back for the future front...maybe using one of the sides as the future front might work as there appears to be a bit more taper and interest from the sides, but you'll still have to bend the heck out of the upper trunk to put the apex in the right spot. Difficult material...I would have walked right passed this one if it had been on the discount table at NEBG. Looking forward to your solution.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Remember, the question was, how would you make this tree into a swan if it was on your bench.

So, would you actually remove 2/3 of a corky trunk from a corkbark black pine if this tree was on your bench? Not saying you wouldn't, just interesting that you all came up with the same conclusion...

 

[Nybonsai12]

Remember, the question was, how would you make this tree into a swan if it was on your bench.

So, would you actually remove 2/3 of a corky trunk from a corkbark black pine if this tree was on your bench? Not saying you wouldn't, just interesting that you all came up with the same conclusion...

I am a chicken so I would probably just let it grow a while before hacking it/air layering it off. Then down the road come back to my earlier thought to see if that was still the best route.

But screw what I think, we all just really want to know what you think and will do with it.

 

[Brian Underwood]

If I didn't sell it on eBay , I think I would have to agree with chopping it just below the overly straight part (red line), then moving the other branches to fill in and create a new apex. The rest of the tree is so funky I wouldn't bother air layering it.

So, what did you decide?

 

[Jason]

Remember, the question was, how would you make this tree into a swan if it was on your bench.

So, would you actually remove 2/3 of a corky trunk from a corkbark black pine if this tree was on your bench? Not saying you wouldn't, just interesting that you all came up with the same conclusion...

I wouldn't. You can always do that if all else fails. You could learn how to do some bud grafting. I'm sure you could mask that section with a "comb over" of other branches (probably not the best solution). You could try some bending techniques with rebar and a fulcrum (which is where I would be tempted to start). How flexible is that section?

So, in summary, this is what I would try in this order:
1) attempt to bend with rebar and fulcrum or via some other method
2) after (or once anchored) try bud grafts
3) If the above doesn't work let the top grow out as a sacrifice and whack the top when you have more foliage developed below OR
4) do the "comb over" and sell it

 

[Poink88]

Remember, the question was, how would you make this tree into a swan if it was on your bench.

So, would you actually remove 2/3 of a corky trunk from a corkbark black pine if this tree was on your bench? Not saying you wouldn't, just interesting that you all came up with the same conclusion...

Since I started it...I really think I would. Pic #4 of OP shows some promising branches that can be used as the new leader. Sorry, cannot say more than that since it is not on my bench. Now if you want to send it over....

 

[Jason]

You could always make it a literati ....I think that would be lower down on my list though

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Reading a couple recent threads prompted me to start this one for a couple reasons:
1. The importance of studying with someone who has worked with a lot of trees (which I do agree with).
2. The suggestion that ALL trees have potential (which I don't agree with).

Why?

First, I suspected the overwhelming response to this tree would be to chop it down to the first branch, which goes with the second suggestion. If it needs to be chopped that far back, does it really have potential?

Second, studying with a few pros opened up more options to use more of the tree. Dave, Brian, Jason...good call. Study with pros, don't you?

Ryan Neil says to use as much of the tree as you can. Kathy teaches how to look at trees differently, how to put branches where they need to be, creatively and tidily.

2 years ago, I also bent part of the primary branch around onto itself in preparation for an approach graft.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

As to the horrible middle section (yep, it's horrible, but it has bark, so I'd rather use it). Add a new branch right where you want it, and hope for the best... or try again next year!

 

[Jason]

Good choice! Do I get some points or something?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Good choice! Do I get some points or something?

Yes, 12. Noted...
;-)

 

[Beng]

I'd try turning it into a semi cascade or cascade before chopping it. Let it grow like crazy for 1-2 years then cut it back hard. I have a old cork bark and it back buds whenever it's chopped hard.

Ben

 

[Poink88]

Reading a couple recent threads prompted me to start this one for a couple reasons:
1. The importance of studying with someone who has worked with a lot of trees (which I do agree with).
2. The suggestion that ALL trees have potential (which I don't agree with).

Why?

First, I suspected the overwhelming response to this tree would be to chop it down to the first branch, which goes with the second suggestion. If it needs to be chopped that far back, does it really have potential?

Second, studying with a few pros opened up more options to use more of the tree. Dave, Brian, Jason...good call. Study with pros, don't you?

Ryan Neil says to use as much of the tree as you can. Kathy teaches how to look at trees differently, how to put branches where they need to be, creatively and tidily.

1. With all honesty Brian, can you come up with same solution in say 5 minutes after looking at the pics you posted?

2. Your decision to keep the upper trunk...is that the only way or is that purely your personal choice?

3. Are you sure that none of us thought of grafting the trunk?

4. Can you post pics of trees that in your opinion don't have any potential? Maybe we can play with it the same way you presented your case.