Housguy
Chumono
I am working on this cork oak and want to get some advice on style and if I should go shohin or bonsai with it? Long way to go, but getting closer to a pot than most of my other trees.
Cork oak advice?
- Thread starter Housguy
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Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Nice young tree. Go bigger will never need worry about leaf size
. Suggest putting in Other deciduous forum for better response.
. Suggest putting in Other deciduous forum for better response.
Housguy
Chumono
Thanks PotNice young tree. Go bigger will never need worry about leaf size
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
I have no idea what size tree you wind up with, whether it is shohin or what not. Cork oak leaves are somewhat large for a strict shohin, IMHO.
Your present choice of the front view has the key problem that it leans away as if recoiling in horror of me (it certainly appears to --> perception = reality). There is also a conspicuous root problem that needs to be fixed - that fat taperless root coming straight at me. I would lop it off right now, in situ, by cutting away the visible part of it above the soil. When you repot sometime in the future, you can comb out the underground part.
That fat little potato of a lower trunk is interesting, but everything else draws my attention away from it. The foliage is 'way up there', comparatively, and fixes my attention on how the trunk above the potato is just a straight cylinder with a branch 1 and branch 2 'way up there'. So, unless you want to present some pix of other possible fronts, my suggestion is that you move the lower left branch to the right, instead, into a position that is the mirror of its present one. Potentially this will be the continuation of the trunk making it be a flattened "C" shape framing the potato.
Eventually, everything above that first branch (now going right) will be removed in my imagined future. I would hang onto it for this year simply because its foliage will power root growth to recover from removal of that ugly surface root. You could chop it off later, this summer or next year, or whenever, depending upon when you are satisfied with the size of the potato, basically.
Once reaching this point, you might decide that you don't like this flattened "C" trunk line, that leaves really are too big for this to work well. You are at a point where you now have a nicely undulating and tapering lower trunk feature --> cut the "C" and start developing the next higher trunk segment of a more upright tree.
okay ...
Do we have a plan?
Your present choice of the front view has the key problem that it leans away as if recoiling in horror of me (it certainly appears to --> perception = reality). There is also a conspicuous root problem that needs to be fixed - that fat taperless root coming straight at me. I would lop it off right now, in situ, by cutting away the visible part of it above the soil. When you repot sometime in the future, you can comb out the underground part.
That fat little potato of a lower trunk is interesting, but everything else draws my attention away from it. The foliage is 'way up there', comparatively, and fixes my attention on how the trunk above the potato is just a straight cylinder with a branch 1 and branch 2 'way up there'. So, unless you want to present some pix of other possible fronts, my suggestion is that you move the lower left branch to the right, instead, into a position that is the mirror of its present one. Potentially this will be the continuation of the trunk making it be a flattened "C" shape framing the potato.
Eventually, everything above that first branch (now going right) will be removed in my imagined future. I would hang onto it for this year simply because its foliage will power root growth to recover from removal of that ugly surface root. You could chop it off later, this summer or next year, or whenever, depending upon when you are satisfied with the size of the potato, basically.
Once reaching this point, you might decide that you don't like this flattened "C" trunk line, that leaves really are too big for this to work well. You are at a point where you now have a nicely undulating and tapering lower trunk feature --> cut the "C" and start developing the next higher trunk segment of a more upright tree.
okay ...
Do we have a plan?
Housguy
Chumono
Thanks a ton Oso!
I see that horror thing you are talking about and to take care of that root problem, one thought is to take care of that and the reverse tapper I have on the trunk by burying to the line right above the reverse tapper.
I like your ideal on the shaping, going to check that out.
I see that horror thing you are talking about and to take care of that root problem, one thought is to take care of that and the reverse tapper I have on the trunk by burying to the line right above the reverse tapper.
I like your ideal on the shaping, going to check that out.
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Why not change angle of tree to deemphasize root and lean of tree
? Roots may be lacking below big root?
Nice looking wiring.
? Roots may be lacking below big root?Nice looking wiring.
Housguy
Chumono
Yes definitely, going to take a look at that as well. I believe that whole pot is full of roots, tree has growing in there for years, need to take a look though.Why not change angle of tree to deemphasize root and lean of tree
Nice looking wiring.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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More or less agree with the advice above. Your trunk is too straight. Both branch one and branch 2 are too straight. I see buds on the trunk on the back side, so it does bud back somewhat on older wood.
If it were mine, I would go ''big'' meaning 24 inches or more for my final size. Oaks are craggy, you need many sharp bends in your branches. You can not ''wire in'' sharp bends. Best way to get sharp bends is "clip and grow".
This will take several years, but the results will be superior. Remove the 2 branches entirely, just cut them off, but leave a short stub for a year or two, there is a collar of buds around the branch where it joins the trunk, you will need new branches roughly where they are. Shorten the trunk probably at least as short as the second branch, you could go as short as the first branch, if you are shooting for 24 inches, shorten the trunk to less than 8 inches. The fine, short branches on the back side of the trunk, the newish ones that we don't really see, just shorten them to 4 inches or less. Remove terminal bud from every branch at the same time you remove the 2 big straight branches.
This should stimulate back budding. Keeping the little branches and leaves will keep the tree going while it is pushing buds to replace the 2 big branches. Removing the terminal buds of the branches you keep will help to totally disrupt hormone distribution, preventing the little branches from becoming too dominant before back budding can occur. Do it now, near the summer solstice and there will be enough growing season left to develop the back buds. Don[t try this just before winter dormancy.
This year let new branches and buds grow without pruning. Next year let new growth begin, maybe do your repot, angle change and root work. Then let grow. Right around summer solstice, prune all branches back to just a couple nodes. Each branch should be 4 inches or less.
Your 3rd year let the branches grow out, then prune back so the each branch has added about 3 inches, one internode less than year 2. Your branches will have branches. Keep this pattern up, your branches will zigzag, and you will rapidly get fine ramification.
Well, rapid might be an exaggeration, oaks do not develop quickly. But this is what I would do. There are other ways to ''skin the cat'', Ponder my advice. Do or not do. I have tried it with an oak from seed from Las Vegas area, similar to a coast live oak. It seemed to work, but I had a wintering issue one year and I did not get to the ''finish line'',, so if a person with more actual oak experience says different, follow their advice.
I'm currently working on a bur oak seedling, right now just bulking up the trunk, which is less than one inch at the moment. So a long way to go.
If it were mine, I would go ''big'' meaning 24 inches or more for my final size. Oaks are craggy, you need many sharp bends in your branches. You can not ''wire in'' sharp bends. Best way to get sharp bends is "clip and grow".
This will take several years, but the results will be superior. Remove the 2 branches entirely, just cut them off, but leave a short stub for a year or two, there is a collar of buds around the branch where it joins the trunk, you will need new branches roughly where they are. Shorten the trunk probably at least as short as the second branch, you could go as short as the first branch, if you are shooting for 24 inches, shorten the trunk to less than 8 inches. The fine, short branches on the back side of the trunk, the newish ones that we don't really see, just shorten them to 4 inches or less. Remove terminal bud from every branch at the same time you remove the 2 big straight branches.
This should stimulate back budding. Keeping the little branches and leaves will keep the tree going while it is pushing buds to replace the 2 big branches. Removing the terminal buds of the branches you keep will help to totally disrupt hormone distribution, preventing the little branches from becoming too dominant before back budding can occur. Do it now, near the summer solstice and there will be enough growing season left to develop the back buds. Don[t try this just before winter dormancy.
This year let new branches and buds grow without pruning. Next year let new growth begin, maybe do your repot, angle change and root work. Then let grow. Right around summer solstice, prune all branches back to just a couple nodes. Each branch should be 4 inches or less.
Your 3rd year let the branches grow out, then prune back so the each branch has added about 3 inches, one internode less than year 2. Your branches will have branches. Keep this pattern up, your branches will zigzag, and you will rapidly get fine ramification.
Well, rapid might be an exaggeration, oaks do not develop quickly. But this is what I would do. There are other ways to ''skin the cat'', Ponder my advice. Do or not do. I have tried it with an oak from seed from Las Vegas area, similar to a coast live oak. It seemed to work, but I had a wintering issue one year and I did not get to the ''finish line'',, so if a person with more actual oak experience says different, follow their advice.
I'm currently working on a bur oak seedling, right now just bulking up the trunk, which is less than one inch at the moment. So a long way to go.
Housguy
Chumono
Great advice Leo!!
Definitely going to use all this great advice from everyone and will post progression pics as soon as I can get to little bugger! Appreciate it!!
Tieball
Masterpiece
Related to this Cork Oak...and generally other oak species. You mention that the pruning would stimulate back budding. If the branches are pruned and leaves removed this early in the growing season....and there are visible bud bumps back on the branches....will the tree activate those buds and send out new leaves and branches?
Housguy
Chumono
Most of my experience is with cork oak trees and with them, they can back bud pretty aggressively after I have cut them back. I don't know if other oaks react in the same manner.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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the OP is in California, this is June is 3 months into the growing season. By me, its still spring, but in California, things have been growing for 3 months.
So yes, the pruning in early middle of the growing season should stimulate back budding.
So yes, the pruning in early middle of the growing season should stimulate back budding.
Housguy
Chumono
Here is the aggressive back budding I was taking about from a couple of my smaller cork oaks that I trimmed a little over a week ago.
Sorry, this pic is a little blurry.
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
John P.
Chumono
Nice trunk fissures there. My only cork oak literally didn’t do anything last year. This spring it’s grown some new leaves.
Housguy
Chumono
Where are you located? Please add your location and zone when you can.
Yeah, here in California, cork oaks grow tremendously, at least my do, long wips everywhere. I have seen corking on my cork oaks in as short as 4 years and the one you commented on has been growing since 2014.
John P.
Chumono
I’m in Laguna Beach, CA ... my Coast Oaks grow like mad ... Corks ... not so much. Maybe the one I ordered (off of eBay) is just defective?
Housguy
Chumono
Thats funny, I am the exact opposite, corks grow fast, coast live and blue oaks, not so much. May be I need to get you one of my cork oaks and see what happens. Your not that far from me and I work in Santa Ana during the week.
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Personal Northern Red Oaks, Oregon White Oaks and California Black oak react in much the same manner
.
Housguy
Chumono
This seems overly cautious to me, but I want to make sure with some expertise from some B nuts first before. This cork oak has some big roots exposed, but still go into the ground supporting the tree and I would like to cut them since they will not be part of the finial design down the road. First, if I cut them will it affect the tree adversely? Second, since there are three of them I need to cut, should I do it all at once or spread them out (I guess this depends on if it affects the tree negatively or not)?
You can see the three roots I want to cut in this pic
The Tree
You can see the three roots I want to cut in this pic
The Tree
